Two orders of mendicants

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We may compare St Francis of Assisi's rule from 1223, seen here:

http://www.ewtn.com/padrepio/franciscan/rule.htm

with the account of Jain monasticism here:

http://www.jainworld.com/societies/jain_monks_nuns.asp

While there are of course differences, and contemporary Franciscans are likely not to live in the precise manner Francis envisioned, the two are quite similar.

It has often been suggested that the Christian ascetic / eremitic / monastic / mendicant movements had their inspiration from India if not further east. The relevant dates as well as the geographic spread could be seen as consistent with that idea. But is it necessarily so? The Aztecs apparently had a class of hermits.- don't know enough about them to compare. But if the Aztec hermits are comparable, then we might suppose that in a culture where both urban centers and access to uninhabited space exist cetain aspects of human nature might lead to eremitics.

In many parts of Asia, it is customary for people to place food in the begging bowl of a passing monk making his rounds.

Do Catholics still do this? I never came across this anywhere in the USA.

My understanding is that Christian monasticism originated in Egypt, but it's not something I've studied in depth. The Coptic monks may have taken cues from other Middle-Eastern sources.

It seems like monasticism is a kind of spiritual rebellion against the more secular/hedonistic norms brought about by increased commerce, trade, and material wealth. So in theory it could develop with any religion that doesn't actively suppress it (e.g. Islam).

Islam has mendicants as well - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fakir - Anglophones have a most unfortunate tendency to associate "fakir" with "faker".

The Desert Fathers in Egypt and then Syria lived either by selling their handiwork or by alms, but they were settled ["stay in your cell and your cell will teach you everything"] and not primary mendicants. The recluse phenomenon - well known over in China - http://www.hermitary.com/articles/china-1.html - is rather different from what we see in the Franciscans and Indian mendicants. Recluses tend to be more passive, working inwardly on their souls and beating up toward God. Mendicants are activists - Francis would have made a great splash in America in the 60s. They go out and do things sand get involved with people.

motl - the modern "mendicant" orders, Franciscans and Dominicans, are a far cry from Francis getting his kit off in the town square to reject his dad's values. And the modern social setup is pretty unsciable. We do not have the attitude that motivates Indians to fill the bowl and impoverished Albanians to hand cash to Gypsies and Sudanese to keep pots of water cooling outside the door for passersby. We can't even find pay phones anymore.

Marshall - good to see you - for sure that was it with Francis. The economic factor is a big one.. Mendicants, hermits and monastics - all sort of pointless in a hunter gatherer society. Everybody is too busy hunting and gathering and avoiding dangers. You will get some solitaries, I am sure, but they are going to live like everybody else.

Could a group of spiritually motivated mendicants survive in a modern Western metropolis?

I think that actually kind of proves my point. It still occurred naturally in the wider Islamic tradition even though it was suppressed by the dominant sects which actively discouraged it. It's something that's bound to occur naturally in most types of societies that are sufficiently advanced.


I don't know what you would call artist communities. You don't have the spiritual devotion or asceticism, but I still wouldn't say the bohemian values are diametrically opposed to monastic values. The anti-materialist bent is there or you wouldn't have the starving artist cliche or the love/hate relationship with commercialization. They did grow from the same basic roots also in Europe.

An interesting point. Not one I had ever thought of, but there are a lot of similaries - including the fact that art colonies can only thrive in certain types of economy.

You have the movement out of society, with dedication to a goal outside the mundane. You have some selling out to be tame musicians or painters or household hermits to wealthy patrons, you have others rejecting materialism. And of course through much of history artistic creation has had strong ties to religion.

Most convincing of all, there is the composition. The artistic AND the spiritual attract the Thinkers and Sensers. And in both you get Organizers coming in and insisting on Order and Rules, and Powervolk coming in so as to look cool.

I am the scholar type myself [and the medieval university had a lot in common with artistic Bohemia]. But Number 1 Son does music AND has sound spiritual insight - he is pretty much part of Bohemia at present. And Herself splits her time between mysticism and art when she is not conumed by her extended family.

Are you familiar with the Carthusians? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carthusian If I had known about them at the right time I might have tried to join. Fairly radical withdrawal from te world combined with serious scholarship.