People with Asperger's less likely to see purpose...

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Moog
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02 Jun 2010, 12:30 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I wonder if anyone can know the entire truth. Everything we tell ourselves could be lies, we just don't realize they are. Scientists "discover" theories only to have some of them disproven later. Maybe there is partial truth in "the world is flat". Maybe it's flat in some places, not so in others. Life is about questioning everything and a devotion to thinking outside the box, even when science is telling you it's proven something to be "true".


Nah, it's probably hollow. :D

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passionatebach
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02 Jun 2010, 12:39 pm

pschristmas wrote:
I'll admit I don't necessarily see the hand of a deity in everything that happens, but I do think that things happen for a reason. If someone makes an attempt at something and fails horribly for one reason or another, then that person simply wasn't ready to do that thing at that time, either psychologically or physically. They may not have had all of the training they needed or have been as confident as they needed to be. It doesn't mean the person won't be ready another time in their life, just that they weren't ready at the time they tried and failed. I also firmly believe that life tends to work itself out if we let it. Things may get bad, but they'll always get better as well. We just have to enjoy what we can when life is at it's lowest -- even if the only thing to enjoy is the feeling of the air expanding our lungs (yeah, been there) -- and let it happen.


I agree with this totally. It does seem that most things in life kind of work themselves out if you let them. Unfortunately, as humans we have a tendency to intervene and meddle in things, that if left alone, turn out ok. There needs to be intervention in some things, but a lot of things (relationships as an example), it can make the situation worse. I also think that the down moments in our lives, community and world can also provide us with a segue to pick up and get involved, make a name for ourselves and gain some respect.

As for purpose, every action, no matter how mundane, has a reaction. Even inaction has a reaction. The reaction to a given situation is dependant upon on timing. Some things may not be responded to for many years.



MindBlind
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02 Jun 2010, 12:53 pm

I resent the idea that us Atheists find no meaning in life. We can and do, but we don't derive it from the supernatural. We find meaning in the things we do and in the world around us. I find a lot of meaning in my life, but I don't think there is a supernatural reason for it. I don't need a god to justify my existence.



wblastyn
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02 Jun 2010, 1:32 pm

MindBlind wrote:
I resent the idea that us Atheists find no meaning in life. We can and do, but we don't derive it from the supernatural. We find meaning in the things we do and in the world around us. I find a lot of meaning in my life, but I don't think there is a supernatural reason for it. I don't need a god to justify my existence.

I think the title of the article reporting the study is a bit misleading.



StuartN
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02 Jun 2010, 2:57 pm

wblastyn wrote:
In other words, we don't make up fairy tales to explain why things happen to us.


It is rare enough on Wrong Planet, and gives me a little startle, whenever I say romantic twaddle. But I think that those on this site who hold to fairy tale explanations, hold to them all the more strongly. So I generally don't feed them.

(Ha ha, I just changed my avatar and in Greek these tales are called "Ιστορίες για μαϊμούδες" - "stories for little monkeys")



pschristmas
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02 Jun 2010, 3:24 pm

serenity wrote:
What I can't get an answer for from people that believe that things 'happen for a reason' is that when small children get and die from something like cancer, what was the purpose of that? Or when a kidnapper rapes and kills a child, where's the meaning?

I will admit that I went through a brief period where mt special interest was spirituality, and I did feel that things 'happen for a reason'. But... the evidence didn't hold up, so I gave up researching it, and moved on.


I'm not sure what you mean. If you are equating "reason" with divine providence, then, no, there isn't one. I don't define "reason" as divine providence, though. I define "reason" as "causative factor." Everything has a causative factor -- otherwise, it would truly be unreasonable. :D Is there some divine providence for a kidnapper stealing and hurting a child? No. Is there a reason? Yes, the guy's insane and dangerous. Can one give meaning to it? Of course, if one looks for it. The case may make other parents more careful with their children, or examination of the man may lead to treatment of his mental illness that could benefit thousands, or one parent may be more careful to tell his or her child that she/he is loved and valued. It can be devalued just as easily and that meaning lost, however, simply by ignoring that it happened at all.



ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo
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02 Jun 2010, 3:25 pm

Moog wrote:
ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I wonder if anyone can know the entire truth. Everything we tell ourselves could be lies, we just don't realize they are. Scientists "discover" theories only to have some of them disproven later. Maybe there is partial truth in "the world is flat". Maybe it's flat in some places, not so in others. Life is about questioning everything and a devotion to thinking outside the box, even when science is telling you it's proven something to be "true".


Nah, it's probably hollow. :D

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Thank you! That's nice of you. :oops:



trekker
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02 Jun 2010, 3:52 pm

I think the tendency of people to see the working of a higher power in their lives is something of a defense mechanism for dealing with the scary uncertainties of life - if something happens to them because it was "meant to be," it means that someone or something (God, fate) is exerting influence over what happens to them in this world. If you believe you are a good person, and are thus in favor with God, and that God exerts influence over the events in your life, then you have some assurance that it will all work out in the end, regardless of how rocky and bumpy the road is, since God will make sure of it.

I would describe myself as an agnostic with a leaning toward atheism. I think that die-hard atheists' assertion that there can not possibly be a God is as logically flawed as highly religious folks' assertion that there must be a God. The whole point of God is that nobody can prove his existence one way or another - if you could prove that God does exist (and an eternal afterlife exists), everyone with half a brain would act morally well all the time, certain of their rewards in the end, and if you could prove that God doesn't exist (and that there are no consequences for our actions other than those meted out in this life), well, I think we might have some trouble in the world (so maybe God is an important mechanism for keeping human nature in check) That being said, I personally lean toward the belief that there is no God, as I think the evidence suggests that it is much more likely that man created God, rather than the other way around.


"What I can't get an answer for from people that believe that things 'happen for a reason' is that when small children get and die from something like cancer, what was the purpose of that? Or when a kidnapper rapes and kills a child, where's the meaning?" (quoted from serenity's post)

I love the line "Well, God works in mysterious ways" as the religious person's response to others pointing out the logical discrepancies in assuming that all things happen for a reason



serenity
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02 Jun 2010, 4:35 pm

pschristmas wrote:
serenity wrote:
What I can't get an answer for from people that believe that things 'happen for a reason' is that when small children get and die from something like cancer, what was the purpose of that? Or when a kidnapper rapes and kills a child, where's the meaning?

I will admit that I went through a brief period where mt special interest was spirituality, and I did feel that things 'happen for a reason'. But... the evidence didn't hold up, so I gave up researching it, and moved on.


I'm not sure what you mean. [b]If you are equating "reason" with divine providence[b] , then, no, there isn't one. I don't define "reason" as divine providence, though. I define "reason" as "causative factor." Everything has a causative factor -- otherwise, it would truly be unreasonable. :D Is there some divine providence for a kidnapper stealing and hurting a child? No. Is there a reason? Yes, the guy's insane and dangerous. Can one give meaning to it? Of course, if one looks for it. The case may make other parents more careful with their children, or examination of the man may lead to treatment of his mental illness that could benefit thousands, or one parent may be more careful to tell his or her child that she/he is loved and valued. It can be devalued just as easily and that meaning lost, however, simply by ignoring that it happened at all.


Yes, I am equating it with a divine providence. I am all for the study of cause and effect, and how things work, and why. As long as faith is not a part of the answer. I don't want to go too far into all of that, because this isn't the right forum for it, and there's a reason that I don't venture over to PPR.



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02 Jun 2010, 5:13 pm

I agree with what most in this thread have said.


I don't believe in any "purpose", god, "higher power" (<not in the conscious/spiritual sense at least) "good", "evil" or anything of
the kind.

I despise this worldview however, but there's really nothing I can do
about it.

For me to deny it would be akin to me denying the reality of the holocaust
simply because I think it was an unspeakably horrible event.

And existence is an unspeakably horrible event...at least for an
untold number of humans and countless other lifeforms.

Anything else I could say on this whole matter would be nothing more
than stating the obvious and preaching to the choir.



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02 Jun 2010, 5:48 pm

wblastyn wrote:
MindBlind wrote:
I resent the idea that us Atheists find no meaning in life. We can and do, but we don't derive it from the supernatural. We find meaning in the things we do and in the world around us. I find a lot of meaning in my life, but I don't think there is a supernatural reason for it. I don't need a god to justify my existence.

I think the title of the article reporting the study is a bit misleading.


Very true. Still, good article.



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02 Jun 2010, 6:07 pm

The fact that there is a scientific explanation for everything is possible, if not probable.....

And despite being very scientifically minded, I am willing to concede that I like the mystery of NOT knowing.......and believe that my spirit cannot be logically explained. My spirit is what endures, my spirit is what gives me courage, my spirit loves me unconditionally and without judgement. I don't think that there is a test or experiment to prove or disprove the existence of "spirit". I just AM.

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02 Jun 2010, 6:51 pm

ooOoOoOAnaOoOoOoo wrote:
I wonder if anyone can know the entire truth. Everything we tell ourselves could be lies, we just don't realize they are. Scientists "discover" theories only to have some of them disproven later. Maybe there is partial truth in "the world is flat". Maybe it's flat in some places, not so in others. Life is about questioning everything and a devotion to thinking outside the box, even when science is telling you it's proven something to be "true".

You can't completely prove anything to be true beyond the fact that you exist. Science doesn't have complete truths, but the theories get closer and closer to it. Like increasing the resolution. The theory of gravity wasn't completely wrong, it just didn't explain everything, so Einstein filled some of those holes with the theory of relativity. What you're arguing for is science :wink:

trekker wrote:
I would describe myself as an agnostic with a leaning toward atheism. I think that die-hard atheists' assertion that there can not possibly be a God is as logically flawed as highly religious folks' assertion that there must be a God. The whole point of God is that nobody can prove his existence one way or another - if you could prove that God does exist (and an eternal afterlife exists), everyone with half a brain would act morally well all the time, certain of their rewards in the end, and if you could prove that God doesn't exist (and that there are no consequences for our actions other than those meted out in this life), well, I think we might have some trouble in the world (so maybe God is an important mechanism for keeping human nature in check) That being said, I personally lean toward the belief that there is no God, as I think the evidence suggests that it is much more likely that man created God, rather than the other way around.
Occam's Razor.

Yes, you can't disprove God, but there's an infinite amount of other things you can't disprove either. If you're going to accept God without proof, it would be inconsistent not to accept Odin, Zeus, Shiva, Horus, Santa Claus, Quetzalcoatl, ghosts and all the other supernatural entities as well. Until you find evidence for something, acting like it exists is irrational.

The article makes sense. It's like how people see faces on the moon - NTs are looking so hard for people's actions that they see them even where there aren't any.



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02 Jun 2010, 7:07 pm

Aspies are usually reasonable and knowledgable people. And reason and knowledge are the cure of superstitious ideas, so...



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17 Nov 2010, 9:57 pm

There are slogans about purpose like:

Better and Better

Day by day, in every way, I am getting better and better.

- E. Coue

When coupled with a career in the workforce, a 40 hour plus work week, that slogan has meaning.



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18 Nov 2010, 7:02 am

Science is religion with the words changed around

There is a God. You might call it the universe. Its probably bigger than that though. It is a thinking and feeling being. It must think and feel because we think and feel and we are a product of it. Bad things happen because they have to happen. If they did not happen nothing would change. Why does that matter? It sucks when it happens to you and all that but who cares? Its just life, and growth doesn't happen without death.