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Is asperger necessarily a disability?

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naturalplastic
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15 Dec 2020, 2:58 am

KT67 wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
I wonder why people pursue a dx if they truly believe it is not a disability. With diagnoses of Asperger's and schizophrenia/schizoaffective I most definitely see myself as disabled. How much of that disability is down to the Asperger's I wouldn't like to say.

What I do know is that without support I do a lot less well than with support. I've never worked. I have no F2F friends. I'm not homo superior/the next stage in human evolution as some like to claim about themselves.


Why do you assume everyone who knows they're autistic pursued a diagnosis?

I don't consider my mind to be disabled at least as far as autism is concerned.

My mother considered it enough of a hindrance to me within the social setting of a secondary school to pursue a diagnosis. Her. Not me. Only for secondary school too - they tried to get her to get me a diagnosis earlier on and she said 'no, that is my child, that is her personality not a disorder. Her disorder is dyspraxia'. Because being autistic provided little to no problems in primary school.

I have mixed opinions on the medical versus social models of disability. I do not believe that autism is necessarily a disability. However, in current society, it definitely disables you. There's a difference. Society can change and has changed. Something like being paralyzed will always be a disability in my opinion.

I think the hyper social, anti-intellectual, overly sensory saturated world we live in at present is bad for a lot of people. I think an ideal world for most would be a balance between that and the overly formal/stuffy world of the Victorians.


In other words:

If pigs had wings then they could fly, and if my grandmother had testicles she would be my grandfather. And if society were radically different some higher functioning autistics would not be disabled.

True, but so what? For the moment society is what it is. So autism is a disability.



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15 Dec 2020, 9:53 am

Yes but it needs the social model to fix it rather than the medical model.


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KT67
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15 Dec 2020, 10:17 am

firemonkey wrote:
KT67 wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
I wonder why people pursue a dx if they truly believe it is not a disability. With diagnoses of Asperger's and schizophrenia/schizoaffective I most definitely see myself as disabled. How much of that disability is down to the Asperger's I wouldn't like to say.

What I do know is that without support I do a lot less well than with support. I've never worked. I have no F2F friends. I'm not homo superior/the next stage in human evolution as some like to claim about themselves.


Why do you assume everyone who knows they're autistic pursued a diagnosis?

I don't consider my mind to be disabled at least as far as autism is concerned.

.


You're assuming that, not me.


If people are seeking out a dx then saying they're not disabled, I agree with you. I don't get that.

My stepdad considers himself to have an 'autistic personality'. Similar to mine except I'm better at socialising/picking up on cues and I have greater sensory needs. He doesn't pursue a dx.

In his position, I wouldn't either.

I had no choice as to being diagnosed. It happened in childhood.


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naturalplastic
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15 Dec 2020, 11:03 am

KT67 wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
KT67 wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
I wonder why people pursue a dx if they truly believe it is not a disability. With diagnoses of Asperger's and schizophrenia/schizoaffective I most definitely see myself as disabled. How much of that disability is down to the Asperger's I wouldn't like to say.

What I do know is that without support I do a lot less well than with support. I've never worked. I have no F2F friends. I'm not homo superior/the next stage in human evolution as some like to claim about themselves.


Why do you assume everyone who knows they're autistic pursued a diagnosis?

I don't consider my mind to be disabled at least as far as autism is concerned.

.


You're assuming that, not me.


If people are seeking out a dx then saying they're not disabled, I agree with you. I don't get that.

My stepdad considers himself to have an 'autistic personality'. Similar to mine except I'm better at socialising/picking up on cues and I have greater sensory needs. He doesn't pursue a dx.

In his position, I wouldn't either.

I had no choice as to being diagnosed. It happened in childhood.


Exactly. And the reason you had no choice, and had that dx forced upon you was...that your parents (or school authorities or whatever) thought you were disabled in some way, and felt the need to find answer via a diagnosis.

Same thing.



Last edited by naturalplastic on 15 Dec 2020, 1:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.

magz
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15 Dec 2020, 11:12 am

KT67 wrote:
If people are seeking out a dx then saying they're not disabled, I agree with you. I don't get that.

My stepdad considers himself to have an 'autistic personality'. Similar to mine except I'm better at socialising/picking up on cues and I have greater sensory needs. He doesn't pursue a dx.

In his position, I wouldn't either.

I had no choice as to being diagnosed. It happened in childhood.
I didn't seek a diagnosis of ASD. I was seeking treatment for severe depression when the psychologist put some information about me together into "the keyword of AS" and, unlike my previous diagnoses, it explaned things and led to improvements.

KT67 wrote:
Yes but it needs the social model to fix it rather than the medical model.
I find this quite accurate.


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15 Dec 2020, 11:17 am

KT67 wrote:
Yes but it needs the social model to fix it rather than the medical model.


Well that’s a personal thing some people may desire future biological treatments that make their disability go away as some have worse symptoms.

Someone on here once used the word Auti verse to describe those on the spectrum who believe everyone has the same level of functioning and views the world in the same way.

Also as naturalplastic alluded to the world is the world.

I say the 99% is unlikely to change dramatically to suit us 1% that’s just the way it is.

Thinking otherwise is just end of the rainbow stuff to waste time on.


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15 Dec 2020, 11:26 am

carlos55 wrote:
I say the 99% is unlikely to change dramatically to suit us 1% that’s just the way it is.

I don't know how it looks where you live, but here we're building ramps, lifts, installing Braille captions, sound signals at traffic lights for pedestrians, etc.
Apparently, my city council didn't read your post.
Or maybe, the 99% can afford to do something if they know what the 1% need?


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15 Dec 2020, 11:39 am

magz wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
I say the 99% is unlikely to change dramatically to suit us 1% that’s just the way it is.

I don't know how it looks where you live, but here we're building ramps, lifts, installing Braille captions, sound signals at traffic lights for pedestrians, etc.
Apparently, my city council didn't read your post.
Or maybe, the 99% can afford to do something if they know what the 1% need?


Hooray........ !


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15 Dec 2020, 11:39 am

magz wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
I say the 99% is unlikely to change dramatically to suit us 1% that’s just the way it is.

I don't know how it looks where you live, but here we're building ramps, lifts, installing Braille captions, sound signals at traffic lights for pedestrians, etc.
Apparently, my city council didn't read your post.
Or maybe, the 99% can afford to do something if they know what the 1% need?


It is easy to learn about what blind people need just by closing one's eyes. I think that handicap assistance has a lot to do with which ones are "in fashion." People want do do some helping to feel good, but they can't afford to help everyone. They might put a whole fire crew into rescuing a kitten, even though supporting that crew through the modern economy is sure to kill other animals hidden by the usual distractions.



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15 Dec 2020, 11:42 am

Dear_one wrote:
magz wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
I say the 99% is unlikely to change dramatically to suit us 1% that’s just the way it is.

I don't know how it looks where you live, but here we're building ramps, lifts, installing Braille captions, sound signals at traffic lights for pedestrians, etc.
Apparently, my city council didn't read your post.
Or maybe, the 99% can afford to do something if they know what the 1% need?


It is easy to learn about what blind people need just by closing one's eyes. I think that handicap assistance has a lot to do with which ones are "in fashion." People want do do some helping to feel good, but they can't afford to help everyone. They might put a whole fire crew into rescuing a kitten, even though supporting that crew through the modern economy is sure to kill other animals hidden by the usual distractions.


Poignant!


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magz
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15 Dec 2020, 11:47 am

Dear_one wrote:
magz wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
I say the 99% is unlikely to change dramatically to suit us 1% that’s just the way it is.

I don't know how it looks where you live, but here we're building ramps, lifts, installing Braille captions, sound signals at traffic lights for pedestrians, etc.
Apparently, my city council didn't read your post.
Or maybe, the 99% can afford to do something if they know what the 1% need?


It is easy to learn about what blind people need just by closing one's eyes. I think that handicap assistance has a lot to do with which ones are "in fashion." People want do do some helping to feel good, but they can't afford to help everyone. They might put a whole fire crew into rescuing a kitten, even though supporting that crew through the modern economy is sure to kill other animals hidden by the usual distractions.

I was only refering to willingness. Ability and efficacy are another things.
What do "the autistics" need? Direct communication and acceptance of it. Acceptance of lack of eye contact. Sensory things. Predictability. The rest is, I believe, personal.


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15 Dec 2020, 12:01 pm

magz wrote:
I was only refering to willingness. Ability and efficacy are another things.
What do "the autistics" need? Direct communication and acceptance of it. Acceptance of lack of eye contact. Sensory things. Predictability. The rest is, I believe, personal.


I'm pretty sure that direct communication would totally re-wire an NT's head. Cultures vary widely in eye contact. Some consider it hostile. Accommodating our sensory issues and staying predictable would feel like "walking on eggs" to most people. Moreover, if we were empowered to have things changed to suit us, there would be a rush of other people telling lies to get what they want, rather than need. There's also the issue that even when the things that bother us are removed, we are not likely to gain much productivity to "pay for" the change.



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15 Dec 2020, 12:13 pm

In my culture, eye contact is not a big deal - you come out as shy when you don't do it, that's all.
Direct communication in official situations seems rather a good idea in general. In unofficial situations, people often know each other and can take personality into account.

I think in the global world, we generally need more cultural tolerance and some simplification of universal social rules - so some adaptations for AS would come naturally if the culture evolves in that direction.


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15 Dec 2020, 12:16 pm

magz wrote:
carlos55 wrote:
I say the 99% is unlikely to change dramatically to suit us 1% that’s just the way it is.

I don't know how it looks where you live, but here we're building ramps, lifts, installing Braille captions, sound signals at traffic lights for pedestrians, etc.
Apparently, my city council didn't read your post.
Or maybe, the 99% can afford to do something if they know what the 1% need?


There’s a world of difference between helping with single 5 sense disability with a sound buzzer or building a concrete ramp for wheelchairs and finding solutions for those with serious brain conditions.

If someone can’t work because they have serious intellectual disability, memory issues or can’t concentrate on a task they are not going to be able to work.

If they can’t work that means surviving on welfare, which means grinding poverty. The reality for many of us.


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magz
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15 Dec 2020, 12:22 pm

The topic is about AS, a diagnosis that excludes "serious intellectual disability".


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15 Dec 2020, 12:50 pm

KT67 wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
KT67 wrote:
firemonkey wrote:
I wonder why people pursue a dx if they truly believe it is not a disability. With diagnoses of Asperger's and schizophrenia/schizoaffective I most definitely see myself as disabled. How much of that disability is down to the Asperger's I wouldn't like to say.

What I do know is that without support I do a lot less well than with support. I've never worked. I have no F2F friends. I'm not homo superior/the next stage in human evolution as some like to claim about themselves.


Why do you assume everyone who knows they're autistic pursued a diagnosis?

I don't consider my mind to be disabled at least as far as autism is concerned.

.


You're assuming that, not me.


If people are seeking out a dx then saying they're not disabled, I agree with you. I don't get that.

My stepdad considers himself to have an 'autistic personality'. Similar to mine except I'm better at socialising/picking up on cues and I have greater sensory needs. He doesn't pursue a dx.

In his position, I wouldn't either.



I had no choice as to being diagnosed. It happened in childhood.


By the time Asperger's was an official dx ,in the UK , I was 35. The possibility,of something untoward going on,however, can be traced back to when I was 5 or 6.
My 1st school had enough concerns to suggest I get tested for what we now call cerebral palsy. Knowledge was nowhere near as substantial then, as it is nowadays, about such things. The result of the test done at Gt Ormond street was negative, and other possibilities weren't explored. My parents didn't pursue the matter further.

I started boarding school at 8 when my father was posted to San Francisco. Letters I acquired decades later re correspondence between prep and public school headmasters described me as poorly coordinated and bad at drawing(NB geometry) and writing .
I had to have handwriting lessons.I also had problems with my feet that meant having to have specially made insoles . The headmaster's wife had me doing exercises.

I was not popular at prep school but was not subjected to the level of verbal bullying I received later at public school. An incident that stood out was some boys saying I was the missing link between ape and man.

From the very start at public school I was regarded as odd, and a suitable candidate for bullying. The catalyst? Being naive and saying I knew little about sex while the other boys were boasting. School reports described me as disorganised and messy. My physical and social awkwardness was all to plain to see.