Lets stop trying to act like neurotypical people.

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You completely lost me here. In my 57 years that is probably the most "be fake" advice I have ever received.

I note that the OP lives in Portland, Oregon an area that is more accepting of difference and "weirdness" then most locales.[/quote]


They don't say that so much here in the NYC area.
But I don't have deliberately choose sensory stimulation here.
But in a convoluted way NY can work for autistics
No matter how "weird" I am there are others more weird.
And everybody is so busy rushing around they don't how time to look at me, so no need to be self conscious.

However it is home to Autism Speaks

Not patronized. For me to feel patronized I would have to feel someone was talking down to me. Not the case here.
Also, not so much that the "advice" is not applicable, but that much of what the OP is saying actually appears a bit ignorant [why that would be, I can not say], as I pointed out, when the OP specifically addressed me:




The assumption seems to be that if people don't work the way the OP does they are unhappy and depressed... but many many people on the spectrum actually approach social situations from a logical perspective- it is often thought to be characteristic of individuals on the spectrum. So for the OP to recommend that these individuals eschew logic in social engagement and, essentially, "feel" their way through it is bordering on the ridiculous. THAT is a large part of the difficulty we face, no? We struggle with "feeling" our way through social situations and relationships, and understanding the implicit rules and assumptions that others seem to understand and just know.

In fact, "feeling" ones way through those sorts of things is, actually, often thought to be a more neurotypical behavior and tendency. So... my failure to not only accept the OPs suggestions but to even fully comprehend them in light of the thread's title should be at least a little bit understandable, yes? or not at all?

I find that when I'm feeling my way and intuiting my way through things, I end up on a different route and path from neurotypical people. Thats really what I wanted to highlight. An autistic person in a purely intuitive feeling mindset will act radically different than a neurotypical. And the logical models are really an attempt to homogenize ways.

I think a lot of autistic people, due to being broken down and insecure, develop the logical models as a coping strategy to deal with that and leave behind their more childlike intuitive ways, in favor of ways where they have some rational justification of explanation for what they are doing. One example of this I find in some autistics is the tendency to live a radically evidenced based life. They want everything they think and do to have some solid scientific evidence to justify them doing it. They want to argue that this is really the ideal way and they want to pound away people with "Wheres the evidence" mentality for everything. But in this I see the desire to be dominated, it's essentially an extension of the catholic \ christian church dominating mentality, where some institution or some perceived more powerful entity lays out to them how they should act and what they should do. For the religions it was commandments, in the scientific dominating hierarchy it's evidence. I think letting go of the need for something to dominate you and reinforce to you that you are correct should be let go of because the desire for that is rooted truly in insecurity, not intelligence, not full awareness of the self.

I think their is gifts and treasures to be found in the highly idiosyncratic autistic mind, and very unique pathways to carve through life by them running in it through pure intuition and feeling. And the adherence to logical models will actually lead them into positions where they are essentially being psychologically dominated and controlled, homogenized, and some potential of the gift can be lost in that.

Yes, I believe I understand what the problem is, and I didn't want to blame anybody for struggling with that, sorry if it came across like that.
I think it has something to do with our AS lack of "theory of mind", or rather that we often rely on guessing and logical deduction to interpret the intentions behind the actions of other people. No matter if in writing or direct interaction.
A problem we also face in communicating with each other here in the forum.
Of course it would have been more appropriate for the OP to relay his personal experience in the first person only, and then simply state, that this might work for others, if they happen to be somewhat similar to him.
If being on the autism spectrum means that we often have problems imagining others states of mind and being, I find it excusable that posters with relatively mild symptoms have sometimes difficulty in imagining the impact of more severe symptoms, and the limiting factors resulting from that. ( though I can kind of imagine it myself, I don't expect that everybody can)
I don't think the OP meant to preach that anybody not following his advice must be unhappy
or that he wanted to make general assumptions about "all people on the spectrum" acting in a certain way. That conclusion seems a bit far-fetched to me.
We all have highly individual ways of coping and I think he is aware of that, even if it wasn't directly expressed in that way.

I also understand this as part of the difficulty that many of us have in verbalizing ideas, so that they come across without involuntary distortions or misinterpretations.
I see the intention, that he simply wanted to share something that worked for him, even if it might only benefit one or two readers who might be able to implement it for themselves.
Not that it must work for everybody, that would be absurd, and I think he mentioned that in the beginning.

As to using feeling instead of logic, I'm not quite sure myself how this was meant, but I'm often using some kind of intuition
that kicks in when I relax and let go of logical thinking for a moment.
Because I'm face-blind, I often don't know who is talking to me, and try frantically to find some logical clues to the identity of the person I ran into.
Often I'm still too shy to simply ask: "who are you?"
Frequently intuition works with that, after a few minutes or so, it suddenly pops up in my mind out of nowhere. And of course this wont work for everybody, but it may be worth experimenting with, to see if it works or not.

metalab wrote:

It occurs to me, that intuition is a way in which the brain is processing as usual,
but in a subconscious way at very high speed.
So a person on the spectrum would still use logic, but without verbalizing any thoughts.
And maybe with some practice the results are even more accurate than from an NT brain?
I've heard of AS people who can do this with mathematics.

@OP

Glad you are finding ways that work for you. It is good to hear positive stories to help balance out the ones about difficulties.

But to prescribe a whole bunch together, an entire system so to speak is pretty much doomed to failure. One problem is the narrowness of applicability, to only a portion of the spectrum. And also limited perhaps to only a certain period and situation in life. Another frankly is internal contradictions concerning 'acting NT'. Lastly is to suggest what is essentially personal philosophy.

A person here might gain some insight or see a suggestion that intrigues them enough to try. But it will be selected from a broad group of sources, like one picks and chooses from a vast menu. There is infinate individuality and variation.

You think you have the universal way for autistics. Brave words from a 27 year old. But just to let you know, that is not actually very old, and here especially. It would be foolish to think learning stops after 27.

I get the idea of intuition, but I can break down pretty much everything I do in terms of understanding people.

So, side note: I have prosopagnosia as well. For a long time I really stuggled. I live above my best friend and if I see her walking toward me unexpectedly on the sidewalk I wouldn't recognize her unless she was close. Part of that is that even if she is calling my name it can be difficult to segregate her voice from everything else going on.

But I figured out ways to understand who this person was who must know me: specific style of dress, gait, are any of their favorite accessories- like a bag, scarf or hat present, etc. In the situation where the person is someone I might have known from work or school but they are out of context so I have difficulty placing them- I look at their hair, how they are standing, how they may or may not move their arms and hands before and while they speak, and jewelry. This is not foolproof but it's helped a LOT.

---
Back to the subject at hand:

All of this?:


Sure seems like very poorly veiled criticism from someone who has ZERO idea of what they are talking about, really. NO idea whatsoever. Leads me to wonder how many ASD individuals the OP usually hangs out with. Because that^up^there? That is just absurd.

[Some parts bolded by me] And just because you say "most" individuals of a certain demographic, it doesn't let you off the hook from basically speaking complete and utter CRAP about that demographic. It just doesn't.

Maybe the OP wants to be helpful but possibly they should stop doing so in such a non-helpful manner. The ideas inherent in what the OP is presenting are absolutely insulting, I'm not being "oversensitive". I'm just "calling it like it is". And if the OP wants to hide behind the whole Oh I'm Just Trying To Help Facade, then I would actually question their motives here because they aren't considering the needs and feelings of their audience. That is, metalab your assumptions about your audience may possibly be wrong. To the point of stigmatizing in the very least.

I don't know if its like annoying stuff like maybe just people on the bus being obnoxious or noise from cars, listening to music on my noise cancelling headphones makes things more pleasant provided I am in the mood for listening to music and having headphones in. I have to say though I can only ever keep them in a while before I have to take a break because my head gets to feeling weird and I start to feel too detatched so have to take them out hear what is really going on around me and what not....also some places its not very safe to walk around with headphones in since you have to be more alert.

But yeah its not just noise specifically that will get to me, its like the vibes, energies, movement that can be overwhelming...but yeah I have a lot of trouble even if I go for a few groceries since everything will side-track me, including headphones if I try to listen to music with them while shopping and I hardly end up with anything I wanted. But yeah its a lot to do with what I sense aside from seeing/hearing if that makes sense....and so with cannabis it seems to actually reduce my sensitivity to all that stuff but without detatching me from life and the situation, so then don't really need to cover up noise with headphones and can tolerate more sensory intensity.

Metalab, thank you so much for this, I have found it so helpful. It seems to me that you are suggesting that shame-based thinking drives many/most autistics into a heavy reliance on logic and that they lose perhaps the best part of themselves because of that. If so, this really does tally with my experience, including the church/institution observations, and I am one of those "born-agains" so you may not have expected that if you knew me.

Wish I could even "try".

I am a science nerd, but I don't apply logical systems to guide social interactions.
I just let it go, say what I want to say, make what faces come out, and I find that is bester than applying logical systems.

Good. But you sound like someone who generates an income. I feel insecure because I don't.

No, I generate little income.
I don't feel insecure about that.

What do you live on?

+1

I used to be in sales and the OP sounds just like he's about to tell us how to overcome autism in 7 easy steps.

To be honest, I do think there is a few simple steps. But they aren't easy.

It really has to do with taking solid dosages of psychedelic drugs in the right environments around the right people. To be honest everything I've stated is a bit of 'psychedelic revelation' or awakening of myself. But thats not as easy as just swallowing something, and I certainly don't recommend everyone do that it'd be absurdly dangerous. That was like 10 years of serious effort on my part, many nights crying. Many meltdowns, many psychotic breaks, many suicidal bouts. Serious struggle. But looking back, if I had to highlight the simple things I realized from that, that was it. Words unforunetly can't fully transfer the process of taking too much LSD and having it rip open your perception beyond what you know to deal with, for you to be able to perceive things you couldn't have before. But thats what it left me with. The statements may be simple, but there was serious work to get there.