What is the root of hatred towards us??

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Jayo
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23 May 2015, 11:00 am

Seriously, why do people have a "hate-on" for us? Even back in the 80s and 90s, during my kid and teen / college years, before my diagnosis in 2001, I could just sense a certain hatred for me even despite my limited capacity to pick up on other emotions and put them in the situational context and shoes of the other person. (OK, note to self, I think I just answered my own question :P )

But getting back to the serious part. I may be somewhat biased, but a lot of the time I really find people's (neurotypical) reactions are disproportionate to the errors we make, and surely they must notice it's not mean-spirited or intentional?? So then I think, well, maybe their hatred is due to them seeing something in us as "useless", that we're virtually unemployable other than janitorial work, so they see us as a burden on society. Going back millennia, it's always been expected that the members of the tribe had to do their contribution or they'd bring the tribe down. Heck, I've interacted with various people outside of work like room-mates, acquaintances and former friends with a recurring comment that "I don't know how you stay employed" (haven't gotten this recently, it was more during my 20s) - usually when I reacted in an angry way to their insults of "lack of commons sense" or their patronizing behaviour.

Still, I don't think their hatred is 100% grounded in their viewing us as useless. I don't think that's the ultimate deciding factor for anyone, regardless of their condition or what sets them apart. After all, it was only about three-quarters of a century ago that an entire society murdered six million Jews. And these were some of the most industrious and contributing people ever. So I really think it ultimately comes down to being seen as different, and then people put misleading labels on that difference like "selfish" or "arrogant" or "entitled". When the majority of the population exhibits those traits to a great degree anyway, but are loathe to admit it.

So, whenever I see an article crop up that somebody with Aspergers was the victim of a violent crime, I can't help but think that neurotypical humans have a hard time breaking free of some of their primate instincts, but the pressure is on US to conform. Is there a compromise or solution?? I don't know. :(



Aniihya
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23 May 2015, 11:56 am

We arent that unemployable. It is rather we have a hard time finding work. And the hatred comes from people who don't understand the condition. Or people who have seen the films Autism Speaks makes and then because of that equate Autism to retardation (see 4chan and the abuse of "autistic" as a hate word). I did away with the bullying when I was in school. One day I snapped and beat a bully up. Of course I was suspended for three days but besides that, no one ever bullied me again after that. Sometimes it is a needed evil to return their hate in their own words if they don't want to listen to you. I don't condone violence but when you feel helpless, it helps more than just to expect help or do nothing and suffer.

However as an adult, if you don't want to go to jail or a psychiatric ward, avoid being violent. Otherwise do as you please if you don't mind the consequences.

Additionally, I would add campaigning and awareness commonly can be contraproductive. So I don't have very many solutions. In real life, I am rather a troll to those who hate. I keep my calm, make smart remarks and people get pissed off and I have my laugh as I can prove myself while they lose control and if they attack, I can sue. Simple as that.



Jayo
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23 May 2015, 1:15 pm

Aniihya wrote:

Additionally, I would add campaigning and awareness commonly can be contraproductive. So I don't have very many solutions. In real life, I am rather a troll to those who hate. I keep my calm, make smart remarks and people get pissed off and I have my laugh as I can prove myself while they lose control and if they attack, I can sue. Simple as that.


hehehe I like the way you think pal!! ! :) I've often thought, felt, and acted this way too. Provided you've got unbiased witnesses and you're not surrounded by the antagonist's entourage, it can work.

In such confrontations of "hate meeting hate", I can often see an irate NT resorting to their "honour customs" = "would you care to step outside??!" I'd just taunt them, as I've done once before, with "well, that doesn't sound very efficient, does it?? I mean, what's preventing you from doing what you gotta do right here??" :D :P

Of course, I try to keep those situations to an absolute minimum, in case they call my bluff, and then I wake up in hospital with a migraine and wonder what faculties I've still got intact 8O



olympiadis
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23 May 2015, 1:23 pm

"The Uncanny Valley Effect"



sAMY
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23 May 2015, 1:30 pm

Because we don't act civilized and intelligent all the time like a normal person should,it's very easy to see why we're hated.



androbot01
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23 May 2015, 1:41 pm

I'm not sure it's hate as much as confusion. I think they just don't know what to make of us. Hate is too strong. To me, people seem wary of me. I try to put them at ease with 85%ish success.
And janitorial work is probably the most useful of all. So much so it's taken for granted.



ASPartOfMe
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23 May 2015, 2:15 pm

Jayo wrote:
But getting back to the serious part. I may be somewhat biased, but a lot of the time I really find people's (neurotypical) reactions are disproportionate to the errors we make, and surely they must notice it's not mean-spirited or intentional?? :(


Because they way we think and our body language is atypical I think most of them do really believe we are being mean spirited and doing it intentionally.


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23 May 2015, 2:29 pm

Because NT thinks we're in the same culture as theirs, so they expect that we act the same as them. (In their language, verbally and non-verbally, their "common-sense", their "norm and taboo")
But in reality, aspies are foreigners at their own birthplace, and NTs don't know it. That's the unintentional part.

In stereotypical cases, when an NT finds out we're different, regardless how good an aspie faked-NT, great chances they'll reject us just for that kind of information. Because of the popular slurs that the media portrays. That's the intentional part.

Whether intentional and unintentional, it's mostly out of ignorance. And like discrimination, it's also out of close-mindedness.


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ToughDiamond
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23 May 2015, 3:03 pm

I think it's largely because a lot of people hate our nonconformity, regardless of whether or not that nonconformity does any real harm.

I suspect that the fact that we often appear superficially normal enhances the unfortunate effect we have on many people. There used to be an art movement called dadaism. Those involved in it would deliberately try to weird people out, and to heighten the effect they would initially dress and behave very normally, only switching to weird behaviour when their victims had completely lowered their guard. I think something like that happens with ASDers, though it's not usually deliberate.



Jayo
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23 May 2015, 3:59 pm

ToughDiamond wrote:
I think it's largely because a lot of people hate our nonconformity, regardless of whether or not that nonconformity does any real harm.

I suspect that the fact that we often appear superficially normal enhances the unfortunate effect we have on many people. There used to be an art movement called dadaism. Those involved in it would deliberately try to weird people out, and to heighten the effect they would initially dress and behave very normally, only switching to weird behaviour when their victims had completely lowered their guard. I think something like that happens with ASDers, though it's not usually deliberate.


Yeah, you're on the right track with that one :) Around the age of 27, I became more successful at appearing normal (that's the age I got my diagnosis, which I think helped). However, I remember being accused on a couple of occasions of engaging in psychological warfare, even one time where I was assaulted (both assault and battery, if you want to get technical) and forced to leave the shared living situation I was in. The thing is, you're reluctant to tell anybody in advance about your condition, out of fear they might reject you right away or worse, persecute and abuse you. :(



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23 May 2015, 4:57 pm

Gene selection and DNA. Humans evolved from a series of pack animal species. Pack animals require a certain degree of uniformity to carry out tasks. If you've got one member of the pack that's always in the wrong place it's going to screw up the kill and everyone goes home hungry. Our "social ineptitude" triggers that primitive instinct.



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23 May 2015, 8:57 pm

I don't think it happens very often that people actually hate me, but when it occurs I believe it is usually because I don't automatically acknowledge and defer to their "authority" over me. I mean typically it has been people in authority positions who have shown the most hatred and aggression towards me (managers, teachers, doctors, police, security guards, etc.). I don't even have to do anything in particular, I think it is just something about my body language and overall demeanor.

Or else it is people who try to be domineering in social situations...like in a group of friends, when there is that one person who tries to be bossy and call the shots on things. That would be the person who ends up hating me.



rarebit
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23 May 2015, 9:18 pm

Social groups are funny things, they make me larf anyway! EVERYBODY (and I use that word rarely) has hang ups about personal deficiencies, perceived or otherwise! We use difference to rationalise things by using comparison. Sometimes people (esp. in groups) will use difference to reinforce their association with the group by highlighting differences.

In my experiences, every group does it, no matter their standing or level in the "pecking order". The bullied become bullies, the guards need guarding, the teachers need re-educating and so on.

I'd say the best thing to do is to try to find the positive, use your skills to the advantage of you and / or others? Don't waste too much time on unnecessary reflection, even though its natural to do some, just move on. Its like the advice they give about bullies, ignore it and carry on, they'll get bored and go look for someone else who gives a response for them to carry on with.



Jayo
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23 May 2015, 9:36 pm

Aristophanes wrote:
Gene selection and DNA. Humans evolved from a series of pack animal species. Pack animals require a certain degree of uniformity to carry out tasks. If you've got one member of the pack that's always in the wrong place it's going to screw up the kill and everyone goes home hungry. Our "social ineptitude" triggers that primitive instinct.


Geeze, and they say WE think in black and white terms...
:roll:



Aristophanes
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23 May 2015, 10:25 pm

Jayo wrote:
Aristophanes wrote:
Gene selection and DNA. Humans evolved from a series of pack animal species. Pack animals require a certain degree of uniformity to carry out tasks. If you've got one member of the pack that's always in the wrong place it's going to screw up the kill and everyone goes home hungry. Our "social ineptitude" triggers that primitive instinct.


Geeze, and they say WE think in black and white terms...
:roll:


Sorry to be bleak, but when we're talking human behavior it doesn't get more to the core of the issue than evolutionary instincts.



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24 May 2015, 5:11 am

Jayo wrote:
Seriously, why do people have a "hate-on" for us? Even back in the 80s and 90s, during my kid and teen / college years, before my diagnosis in 2001, I could just sense a certain hatred for me even despite my limited capacity to pick up on other emotions and put them in the situational context and shoes of the other person. (OK, note to self, I think I just answered my own question :P )

But getting back to the serious part. I may be somewhat biased, but a lot of the time I really find people's (neurotypical) reactions are disproportionate to the errors we make, and surely they must notice it's not mean-spirited or intentional?? So then I think, well, maybe their hatred is due to them seeing something in us as "useless", that we're virtually unemployable other than janitorial work, so they see us as a burden on society. Going back millennia, it's always been expected that the members of the tribe had to do their contribution or they'd bring the tribe down. Heck, I've interacted with various people outside of work like room-mates, acquaintances and former friends with a recurring comment that "I don't know how you stay employed" (haven't gotten this recently, it was more during my 20s) - usually when I reacted in an angry way to their insults of "lack of commons sense" or their patronizing behaviour.

Still, I don't think their hatred is 100% grounded in their viewing us as useless. I don't think that's the ultimate deciding factor for anyone, regardless of their condition or what sets them apart. After all, it was only about three-quarters of a century ago that an entire society murdered six million Jews. And these were some of the most industrious and contributing people ever. So I really think it ultimately comes down to being seen as different, and then people put misleading labels on that difference like "selfish" or "arrogant" or "entitled". When the majority of the population exhibits those traits to a great degree anyway, but are loathe to admit it.

So, whenever I see an article crop up that somebody with Aspergers was the victim of a violent crime, I can't help but think that neurotypical humans have a hard time breaking free of some of their primate instincts, but the pressure is on US to conform. Is there a compromise or solution?? I don't know. :(


From an evolutionary standpoint, it can be argued that humans have a tendency to act in a hostile manner towards those who are different, in a conscious or subconscious effort to repel or exclude them, because they disrupt the cohesion of groups, or potentially propagate detrimental genes through the gene pool, thus reducing the probability of survival of the group.

However in light of the fact that humans are more likely to exist in large, dispersed societies these days, rather than small, close knit groups, the importance of group cohesion to survival has been significantly reduced, and that human behavior has not caught up with this, simply translates to the fact that some humans are not particularly good people.