Tony attwood book

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Anyone got the Tony Attwood book " Asperger's Syndrome: A Guide for parents & professionals ...

Carl jung talked alot on Introverts in 1920s... Hans Asperger was Born in 1906 & died in 1980...

Asperger syndrome

Asperger published the first definition of Asperger syndrome in 1944. In four boys, he identified a pattern of behavior and abilities that he called "autistic psychopathy", meaning autism (self) and psychopathy (personality disease). The pattern included "a lack of empathy, little ability to form friendships, one-sided conversation, intense absorption in a special interest, and clumsy movements."

Turn to page 11 notice the 50 years ago book published in 1998...

Turn to page 15... Notive the Lorna Wing 1983...and the description erm 1983? too much like Hans work...


Lack of empathy

naive, inappropriate, one-sided interaction

little or no ability to form friendships

pedantic, repetitive speech

poor non-verbal communication

intense absoption in certain subjects

clumsy & ill-coordinated movements & odd postures..


I hate to be the one to say this, but to this say's they is no cure for As because we are introverts... it would mean you would need gentic engineering to change you...

Wing, Attwood and whatnot use Asperger's original work to define the disorder; Gilberg's criteria is an extension of this, Attwood also has his own criteria on his website:

He isn't a proponent of motor mannerisms in Asperger's, well, that's what a psychologist at his clinic said, i.e., rocking and flapping is more common in autism proper rather than Asperger's.

Anyway, Asperger's/autism doesn't equate to an introverted personality; there are people with Asperger's/autism who are extroverted individuals.

Last edited by Danielismyname on 14 Dec 2007, 6:16 am, edited 1 time in total.

Growing up constantly being compared to extroverts can be very damaging. Most introverted children grow up receiving the message overtly & covertly that something is wrong with them. They feel blamed why can’t they answer the question faster? And defamed maybe they aren’t very smart. Forty-nine of the fifty introverts I interviewed felt they had been reproached & maligned for being the way they were.

Introverted children usually get the message loud & clear that something is wrong with them.

In a study that was replicated three times with the same findings, introverts & extroverts were asked if they would prefer their ideal self to be extroverted or introverted. They were also asked if they would prefer their ideal leader to be introverted or extroverted. Reflecting the prejudices in our culture, both introverts & extroverts choose extroverts as their ideal self & their ideal leader. We live in a culture that caters to & extols extroverts. We definitely learn extroversion is the way we should be.

All too true - it takes all kinds to make a world but we are constantly told that only extroversion is the desirable way to be.

Introvert Brain-Body Circuits

As we have seen, the introverted brain has a higher level of internal activity & thinking than the extroverted brain. It is dominated by the long, slow acetylcholine pathway.

Acetylcholine also triggers the Throttle-Down (parasympathetic nervous) system that controls certain body functions & influences how innies behave.

The fact that introverts brains are buzzing means that innies are likely to:

Reduce eye contact when speaking to focus on collecting words & thoughts; increase eye contact when listening to take in information.
Surprise others with their wealth of information.
Shy away from too much attention or focus.
Appear glazed, dazed, or zoned out when stressed, tired, or in groups.

The dominance of the l-o-n-g acetylcholine pathway means that introverts:

May start talking in the middle of a thought, which can confuse others.
Have a good memory but take long time to retrieve memories.
Can forget things they know very well – might stumble around when explaining their job or temporarily forget a word they want to use.
May think they told you something when they just have thought it.
Are clearer about ideas, thoughts, & feelings after sleeping on them.
May not be aware of their thoughts unless they write or talk about them.

The activation of the parasympathetic nervous system means that introverts:

May have trouble getting motivated or moving, might appear lazy.
May be slow to react under stress.
May have a calm or reserved manner; may walk, or eat slowly.
May need to regulate protein intake & body temperature.
Must have breaks to restore energy.

What's with the regulation of protein intake ? ( genuine interest)

I started a thread a while back asking what difference was between Aspergers and introversion. I pointed to results on the Jung-Myers Typology test on here somewhere ( 98% of WP members taking the test score as introvert of some kind) to show that most Aspies seem to be introverted, tho this was challenged on the basis that the test measures ability to socialise etc, not desire to, thus measuring AS rather than introversion.

Last edited by ouinon on 14 Dec 2007, 6:47 am, edited 2 times in total.

The Keys to Unlocking Your Long-Term Memory

Human memory is complex & uses many different areas of the brain. The brain stores memories in numerous locations & creates links between them called associations. Often we introverts think nothing relevant is in our head because we haven’t triggered the association to our long-term memory. Our mind seems blank. This is why introverts can even forget what we like to do or what we are good at. We need to locate a connecting handle to yank an experience out of our memory. Here’s the neat thing most pieces of information in long-term memory were stored with several handles or keys (associations) for unlocking them. If we find just one key, we can retrieve the whole memory.

So let’s say you like to paint or fish or walk around a park with flowers in bloom, but that information is locked in long-term memory. You have some free time, but you can’t remember what you like to do. This may sound nuts to an extrovert, but it is a common problem of introverts. Remember, it takes only one key like a thought, emotion, or sensory association to open the whole memory.

Sit down, relax, & let your mind wander & associate to possible sensory keys, like smells, visual pictures, sounds, the feel of your body, or the taste of something pleasant. Or think of an emotional key, like how you felt that last time that you did something fun. Let your mind go anywhere it wants; jumping from association to association is okay.

Maybe the peaceful feeling of sitting in a park on a sunny day returns to you & with it the thought: I like Oak Park; I enjoyed going there. Now you could go to the park or relax & look for another memory. Write down the memories you find to use another day when you can’t remember what you enjoy. Use these keys to unlock your memory to search for what you are good at, too.

If any of u have problems remembering

May need to regulate body temperature and protein intake since they are almost always metabolizing food... is what it says

But in what way? Less, more? And why? What way does their metabolisation of food differ from an extrovert? " always" seems a bit vague.
About forgetting what like doing or what good at i do that all the time. In fact i thought earlier this year that i was introvert, but it didn't seem to explain everything. The degree of difficulty i have had with things that fall under AS diag for instance.

However it would make a refreshingly non-pathologised term for Aspergers Syndrome IF it did include everything.
After all , either Aspergers is NOT an illness, as so many say, ( "we aren't broken, so don't need fixing") OR it IS a problem/dysfunction in which case Aspies could do with some help reducing disability, ( removal of damaging environmental factors , appropriate intervention at birth to avoid eating foods body/brain can't cope with, occupational therapies etc etc )if only for generations to come.

IF is NOT an illness/dysfunction, is just a difference, what is wrong with the term Introvert ? It seems to cover 98% of the members of wp who have taken the test!! ( and those it doesn't , or who say that they are extrovert but that the test labels them wrongly, and say they would socialise more if could, can use the term aspergers which applies to a disability/dysfunction.)
The framework of Extrovert/Introvert wonderfully avoids implying that we need treatment, which so many wp members so hate the suggestion of. And also we could demand equal rights on basis of it, rather than having demands for support relegated to long term programme involving our eradication !
Aspergers is such a medical term, whereas introvert , wow, is clearly just a great difference.

Unfortunately a super militant site that used to exist, called Introvert Nation has disappeared. Big shame.
Been replaced by WrongPlanet perhaps?? It's such a shame though that have to spend so much time insisting that don't want to be cured because not broken, as a result of identifying under a medical term quite obviously heavy with pathological implications.

It wouldn't be surprising if the Dr Asperger, working in the atmosphere of post-war germany etc , should have chosen to pathologise introverts. Fear, guilt, low self-esteem, a terrible space, in which children with authority, not ready to hang out in groups, etc, may have seemed intolerable.

Last edited by ouinon on 14 Dec 2007, 8:01 am, edited 3 times in total.

Don't know about that can't find info about it, someone who knows about the Autonomic Nervous System would have that information... Maybe it involves a test before you can say since they is 9 types..

Therefore, there are 9 possible Metabolic Type™ combinations involving the pairing of the Autonomic and the Oxidative Systems:

Sympathetic Fast
Sympathetic Mixed
Sympathetic Slow

Balanced Fast
Balanced Mixed
Balanced Slow

Parasympathetic Fast
Parasympathetic Mixed
Parasympathetic Slow

1. Introverts Think & Talk Differently

Extroverts think & talk all at one time. It is effortless to them. In fact, things become clearer as they speak out loud. Introverts, on the other hand, need time to think & don’t speak with spontaneity unless it’s a familiar subject. Introverts can appear cautious or passive to extroverts. Extroverts are so used to speaking off the top of their heads that they may be distrustful of more reticent introverts. When introverts speak with hesitation, extraverts may feel impatient. Just spit it out, they think. Why don’t they have more confidence in their own opinion? What are they trying to hide? Extroverts may experience an introvert as withholding information or ideas.

Extroverts need to learn that introverts require time to form & articulate opinions. However, extroverts also ought to be aware that if introverts have carefully thought out their ideas on a subject, or know a lot about a topic, then watch out – the formerly quiet innies lips will start flapping fast & furious.

2. Introverts Are Unseen.

When introverts appear reluctant to speak or speak slowly, they often don’t engage extroverts. Extroverts may think (introverts can think this, too) that the introverts don’t have anything to contribute. Introverts dislike interrupting, so they might say something softly or more depth than the general level of the conversation; because this may make people feel uncomfortable, they ignore the comment. Later another person may say the same thing & receive a great response. The Introverted person feels unseen. It’s frustrating & confusing for them.

From the outside many introverts give no hint about the mental gears grinding & meshing inside. In social situations their faces may look impassive or uninterested. Unless they are overwhelmed or they really are disinterested (if the topic is too lightweight), they are usually just thinking about what people are saying. They will share their thoughts if asked.

3. Introverts Pressure Extroverts to Stop & Think.

The third reason extroverts are mistrustful of introverts is because we do something many extroverts hate we dare suggest that they stop reacting & start reflecting before barging ahead. It unnerves extroverts when introverts suggest that they slow things down, plan, think about consequences, & focus longer before acting. Extroverts can already see the end of the project, like new flowers freshly planted in the backyard. They are ready to go to the nursery & buy colourful plants. They’re like racehorses; they whinny & tug at the reins if you try to restrain them. Slower-paced introverts, by contrast, like to stop & smell the roses. “Let’s just sit & gaze at the backyard & think how we want to plant it first,” they say. Trying to get them to “step it up” is like trying to speed up a tortoise. Even if you light a fire under their bellies, they just can’t increase their pace.

Innies & outies can definitely rub one another the wrong way.


This will tell you the social thing as monster job in ca have excepted to host it... http://hr.monster.ca/8364_en-CA_p1.asp

Last edited by logitechdog on 14 Dec 2007, 7:43 am, edited 1 time in total.

Actually i think i could explain everything about my condition/difficulties using the framework of Introversion IF i make specific reference to the effect of gluten and casein food-opioids on my brain from childhood. ( i am gluten and casein intolerant)

I am/have been a chemically altered/disturbed Introvert. That's me.

And that's maybe what Aspergers are. Either medium to extreme introverts suffering from the widespread discrimination against introverts, and/or chemically disturbed introverts whose whole nature has been distorted and thrown out of whack from earliest infancy by some aspect of their environment.

So that there is no question of aspies wanting to find a cure because introverts are as natural a part of human race as extroverts. They only need help if their Introversion has become problematic as result of environmental factors throwing their finely balanced brains into disarray !

I don't want a medical term to describe me. I'm sick of the illogicality of identifying with a medical condtion at same time as saying "i'm not broken, etc etc ". It simply doesn't make sense.

Last edited by ouinon on 14 Dec 2007, 7:53 am, edited 2 times in total.

This is what started it, if u pick up a physiology book & turn to personality disorder by Freud..

Freud’s theoretical differences with Adler & Jung ended in bitterness. The three parted company & each went his own way. At that point, Freud began to use the concept of introversion as a negative, implying a turning inward away from the world, in his writings about narcissism. This shifted the evolution of the concept introversion away from healthy & toward the unhealthy, a misconception that remains to this day.

Thank you very much for this thread, logitechdog. This has been very helpful.

I didn't know that about the freudian spin on introversion turning it into something unhealthy.
Wow, this has really cleared something up for me.

i dont think that is the full story on introversion vs extroversion. I am an E on the myers briggs scale but around a crowd of NTs im really confused and uncomfortable and tend to be either quiet or blurt stuff out. If im with a crowd of AS people im naturally extroverted. It can depend on whether you have simmilarities to the group you are with. Extroverted NTs can also go quiet around groups of people talking about something that doesnt interest them.

Why do you think you score E on the test? ( which by the way less than 2% of wp members did last i looked) I remember you pulling me up on this on my thread about aspergers and introversion.
What could it be that makes you score extrovert?
Because talkativeness or non-talkativeness is only one element of the Introversion/Extroversion scale, as Logitechdogs posts show.

Last edited by ouinon on 14 Dec 2007, 8:10 am, edited 1 time in total.