WHAT CAN AN NT DO TO MAKE A FRIENDSHIP WORK WITH YOU

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Fnord
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30 Jun 2015, 7:56 pm

What can a person with a Neuro-Typical personality do to make a friendship work with an Aspie?

Here are a few observations to ponder ...

1) Make no issue at all of the fact that the "NT" has a Neuro-Typical personality. We can see it, hear it, and practically feel it the moment you walk into the same room. Eventually, every Aspie seems to react to the "I'm an NT and I want to be your friend" pitch in much the same way as an NT might react to the "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" pitch. Neither of these seem credible to those of us who have been around for a while.

2) Convince the Aspie that their alleged friendship is not really a ploy to abuse, exploit or otherwise take advantage of the Aspie in any way, shape, or form. Aspies are likely to have experienced many false friendships before they've graduated high school, so this may be extremely difficult for an "NT" who has likely never experienced any form of abuse or exploitation in their lives.

3) Convince the Aspie that the "NT" genuinely likes the Aspie for him- or her-self, and not for their wealth, their property, or for any other potential social or economic benefit that the Apsie may represent. Spend time with the aspie, doing whatever the Aspie finds enjoyable, whether it is playing archaic board games, violent video games, or quiet card games.

4) Convince the Aspie that the "NT" wants to spend time with the Aspie, and not just hang around with the Aspie while the "NT" texts or talks with their real friends on their smart phones. Nothing says "false friend" more than someone who is physically with the Aspie, but mentally and emotionally engaged with someone else who is not even in the same room.

5) Start out with a slow, quiet, truthful, low-key approach. A simple self-introduction, followed by an expressed mutual interest usually works. Rushing in with a jumble of words in a loud voice induces anxiety, and is the same deceptive approach used by door-to-door salespeople to 'hook' a potential customer into buying their products and services. After several encounters with such people, it is much safer for an Aspie to say, "No, thank you" and walk away from a potential friendship than to risk being ripped off again.

6) Generally speaking, we Aspies do not like surprises, whether good or bad - a surprise birthday party can be just as stressful as a being cut off on the freeway. A sudden change in behavior from a friend can be baffling, especially when that 'friend' insists that "everything is fine". Even if the change is not due to something we said or did, we may still believe that it is somehow our fault, and that we could say or do something to make things better if only our "friends" would tell us the truth about why they're suddenly avoiding us or giving us the "cold shoulder" treatment.

7) Do not equate personal worth with personal wealth. Many Aspies are on limited or fixed incomes. If an Aspie cannot afford to take you out on a "date", then offer to pay for the date yourself. If you are not willing to do this, then you are better off dating your "NT" friends and leaving the Aspies alone.

8) Many of us do not enjoy interruptions, either. If you want to drop in on an Aspie friend, try to call ahead to see when would be a good time. The general idea is that whatever we've chosen to do at the moment is so important to us that any interruption will induce some form of anxiety. Some people understand and respect this; but most seem to interpret this as an excuse for me to 'screen' my visitors - then they will either drop by without warning anyway, or they don't drop by at all.

9) Be prepared for honesty. Not just the lack of lies, deceptions, and "head games"; but the kind of honesty you might expect from someone who does not ever notice if you are offended by the by what they say. For example, if you are overweight, and you ask your Aspie friend if wearing your new outfit makes you look fat, expect to receive and deal quietly with an answer like, "No, you were already fat before you put on that outfit". This is what some people call "brutal" honesty; but Aspies tend to not anticipate that you may be unable to handle this much honesty, and may not understand why you would be offended. After all, you would not want someone to lie, now would you?

10) Above all, know that Aspies are people with feelings, even though they may be unable to adequately and appropriately express those feelings in ways that people with Neuro-Typical personalities may accurately recognize and understand. We are not robots. We are not "Rainmen". We are neither space aliens nor angels/demons trapped in human bodies. We are not reincarnated souls. And we are neither the next step in human evolution, nor the result of cross-breeding with ancient humanoid species (i.e., Atlanteans, Neanderthals, Thetans, et cetera).

We Are People!

Deal with it!



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30 Jun 2015, 8:09 pm

Fnord wrote:
8) Many of us do not enjoy interruptions, either. If you want to drop in on an Aspie friend, try to call ahead to see when would be a good time. The general idea is that whatever we've chosen to do at the moment is so important to us that any interruption will induce some form of anxiety. Some people understand and respect this; but most seem to interpret this as an excuse for me to 'screen' my visitors - then they will either drop by without warning anyway, or they don't drop by at all.


Yeah DEFINITELY that, even when my brother does this it irritates the hell out of me.



nurseangela
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30 Jun 2015, 8:18 pm

Fnord wrote:
What can a person with a Neuro-Typical personality do to make a friendship work with an Aspie?

Here are a few observations to ponder ...

1) Make no issue at all of the fact that the "NT" has a Neuro-Typical personality. We can see it, hear it, and practically feel it the moment you walk into the same room. Eventually, every Aspie seems to react to the "I'm an NT and I want to be your friend" pitch in much the same way as an NT might react to the "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" pitch. Neither of these seem credible to those of us who have been around for a while.

2) Convince the Aspie that their alleged friendship is not really a ploy to abuse, exploit or otherwise take advantage of the Aspie in any way, shape, or form. Aspies are likely to have experienced many false friendships before they've graduated high school, so this may be extremely difficult for an "NT" who has likely never experienced any form of abuse or exploitation in their lives.

3) Convince the Aspie that the "NT" genuinely likes the Aspie for him- or her-self, and not for their wealth, their property, or for any other potential social or economic benefit that the Apsie may represent. Spend time with the aspie, doing whatever the Aspie finds enjoyable, whether it is playing archaic board games, violent video games, or quiet card games.

4) Convince the Aspie that the "NT" wants to spend time with the Aspie, and not just hang around with the Aspie while the "NT" texts or talks with their real friends on their smart phones. Nothing says "false friend" more than someone who is physically with the Aspie, but mentally and emotionally engaged with someone else who is not even in the same room.

5) Start out with a slow, quiet, truthful, low-key approach. A simple self-introduction, followed by an expressed mutual interest usually works. Rushing in with a jumble of words in a loud voice induces anxiety, and is the same deceptive approach used by door-to-door salespeople to 'hook' a potential customer into buying their products and services. After several encounters with such people, it is much safer for an Aspie to say, "No, thank you" and walk away from a potential friendship than to risk being ripped off again.

6) Generally speaking, we Aspies do not like surprises, whether good or bad - a surprise birthday party can be just as stressful as a being cut off on the freeway. A sudden change in behavior from a friend can be baffling, especially when that 'friend' insists that "everything is fine". Even if the change is not due to something we said or did, we may still believe that it is somehow our fault, and that we could say or do something to make things better if only our "friends" would tell us the truth about why they're suddenly avoiding us or giving us the "cold shoulder" treatment.

7) Do not equate personal worth with personal wealth. Many Aspies are on limited or fixed incomes. If an Aspie cannot afford to take you out on a "date", then offer to pay for the date yourself. If you are not willing to do this, then you are better off dating your "NT" friends and leaving the Aspies alone.

8) Many of us do not enjoy interruptions, either. If you want to drop in on an Aspie friend, try to call ahead to see when would be a good time. The general idea is that whatever we've chosen to do at the moment is so important to us that any interruption will induce some form of anxiety. Some people understand and respect this; but most seem to interpret this as an excuse for me to 'screen' my visitors - then they will either drop by without warning anyway, or they don't drop by at all.

9) Be prepared for honesty. Not just the lack of lies, deceptions, and "head games"; but the kind of honesty you might expect from someone who does not ever notice if you are offended by the by what they say. For example, if you are overweight, and you ask your Aspie friend if wearing your new outfit makes you look fat, expect to receive and deal quietly with an answer like, "No, you were already fat before you put on that outfit". This is what some people call "brutal" honesty; but Aspies tend to not anticipate that you may be unable to handle this much honesty, and may not understand why you would be offended. After all, you would not want someone to lie, now would you?

10) Above all, know that Aspies are people with feelings, even though they may be unable to adequately and appropriately express those feelings in ways that people with Neuro-Typical personalities may accurately recognize and understand. We are not robots. We are not "Rainmen". We are neither space aliens nor angels/demons trapped in human bodies. We are not reincarnated souls. And we are neither the next step in human evolution, nor the result of cross-breeding with ancient humanoid species (i.e., Atlanteans, Neanderthals, Thetans, et cetera).

We Are People!

Deal with it!


You know, you make a lot of assumptions about NT's that are false. I'm almost beginning to wonder if you are NT yourself, since Aspies don't want NT's to make assumptions. It's a good thing that I (an NT) am here to represent the other side and to set you straight about a few things, otherwise, your "observations" regarding NT's would make us all look bad to other Aspies. Right now, I don't have time to "deal with it" or with you - my health is more important. I'm turning my email off and it's on to exercise.


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Campin_Cat
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30 Jun 2015, 9:00 pm

Well, I, unfortunately, don't have time to read this entire thread----I DID read the whole first page, though----but, I wanted to add my 2 cents, and I'm hoping I'm not repeating what someone else already said.....

Please, somehow, understand that "stupid" and "smart" can reside in the same body / brain. Sure, we might be able to tell you the ENTIRE history of "whatever"----but, at-the-same-time, not be able to fill-out a simple form; and, we don't know why, that's just the way it is. (A theory of mine, is that it's because we can't do "simple", cuz there's nothing to analyze.)

Yeah, we might be able to do calculus in our head, and, at-the-same time, not be able to maintain a checking account ledger----and, we don't know why; that's just the way it is.

I can totally understand why that would be difficult to understand----but, let me tell ya, it's MUCH harder to LIVE [it].

Thanks, for asking!!





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30 Jun 2015, 9:27 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Well, I, unfortunately, don't have time to read this entire thread----I DID read the whole first page, though----but, I wanted to add my 2 cents, and I'm hoping I'm not repeating what someone else already said.....

Please, somehow, understand that "stupid" and "smart" can reside in the same body / brain. Sure, we might be able to tell you the ENTIRE history of "whatever"----but, at-the-same-time, not be able to fill-out a simple form; and, we don't know why, that's just the way it is. (A theory of mine, is that it's because we can't do "simple", cuz there's nothing to analyze.)

Yeah, we might be able to do calculus in our head, and, at-the-same time, not be able to maintain a checking account ledger----and, we don't know why; that's just the way it is.

I can totally understand why that would be difficult to understand----but, let me tell ya, it's MUCH harder to LIVE [it].

Thanks, for asking!!


I agree, stupid is not a broad-spectrum brush that applies evenly to a whole person. I consider myself socially stupid but academically smart, for example. Lots of students seem to be smart with language and history and slow with math and science or vice-versa. And it's definitely possible to be brilliant with logic and completely idiotic about emotions and feelings!

I read that there are at least ten types of intelligence. This webpage breaks them down and gives a short description for each. I have #1, #2 and #4. The others I fall a bit lower than ten out of ten for! but sucking at #6 like most Aspies seem to doesn't make you stupid. I can't tell you how tired I got of hearing "you can't fix stupid" when I begged for explanations of why something I did or said didn't work socially.


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nurseangela
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30 Jun 2015, 9:44 pm

Campin_Cat wrote:
Well, I, unfortunately, don't have time to read this entire thread----I DID read the whole first page, though----but, I wanted to add my 2 cents, and I'm hoping I'm not repeating what someone else already said.....

Please, somehow, understand that "stupid" and "smart" can reside in the same body / brain. Sure, we might be able to tell you the ENTIRE history of "whatever"----but, at-the-same-time, not be able to fill-out a simple form; and, we don't know why, that's just the way it is. (A theory of mine, is that it's because we can't do "simple", cuz there's nothing to analyze.)

Yeah, we might be able to do calculus in our head, and, at-the-same time, not be able to maintain a checking account ledger----and, we don't know why; that's just the way it is.

I can totally understand why that would be difficult to understand----but, let me tell ya, it's MUCH harder to LIVE [it].

Thanks, for asking!!


That is extremely interesting, Campin Cat! I have to say that I'm guilty of being a little jealous of some Aspies intelligence when it comes to math. It would take me hours, literally, to understand just a small amount of problems in Statistics and Algebra. Then once the test was over, I forgot it all.

If anyone has any theories of why what Campin Cat said is true, I'd like to hear about it.


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30 Jun 2015, 9:50 pm

There's all sorts of neurologically-based theories pertaining to Asperger's/Autism floating around.



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30 Jun 2015, 10:30 pm

nurseangela wrote:
You know, you make a lot of assumptions about NT's that are false. I'm almost beginning to wonder if you are NT yourself, since Aspies don't want NT's to make assumptions. It's a good thing that I (an NT) am here to represent the other side and to set you straight about a few things, otherwise, your "observations" regarding NT's would make us all look bad to other Aspies. Right now, I don't have time to "deal with it" or with you - my health is more important. I'm turning my email off and it's on to exercise.
I made no assumptions. I have reported observations. Note how many others agree with those observations and provide several of their own, as well.

Denial seems to be a common "NT" trait; even when confronted with facts regarding their behavior -- even when captured on video -- many people with neurotrophic personalities will deny their own behavior, try to pass it off as a misunderstanding on the part of the observer, or try to excuse it by citing any number of mitigating factors.

But if these descriptions truly do not fit some people, then perhaps they have something other than a neurotypic personality. Maybe they have undisclosed reasons or ulterior motives as you why they would want to pretend to like people with ASDs and then talk down to them, or even call them "ignorant" or "stupid".

There are "NTs" who seem to believe that a person with an ASD could not possibly know what the world is really like, or that we Aspies are so gullible that we would believe anything that an "NT" tells us.

But we're not stupid. We see and hear what "NTs" do and say, and we pass along our observations to other Aspies, who in turn pass their observations along to us. This way, we protect each other from pretentious know-it-alls whose only apparent purpose for logging on to WP is to generate feelings of superiority over us for themselves, and to undermine the reputations that we have built up for ourselves in the WP community.

I sincerely hope that you are not one of those people.



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01 Jul 2015, 12:21 am

nurseangela wrote:
Fnord wrote:
What can a person with a Neuro-Typical personality do to make a friendship work with an Aspie?

Here are a few observations to ponder ...

1) Make no issue at all of the fact that the "NT" has a Neuro-Typical personality. We can see it, hear it, and practically feel it the moment you walk into the same room. Eventually, every Aspie seems to react to the "I'm an NT and I want to be your friend" pitch in much the same way as an NT might react to the "I'm from the government and I'm here to help you" pitch. Neither of these seem credible to those of us who have been around for a while.

2) Convince the Aspie that their alleged friendship is not really a ploy to abuse, exploit or otherwise take advantage of the Aspie in any way, shape, or form. Aspies are likely to have experienced many false friendships before they've graduated high school, so this may be extremely difficult for an "NT" who has likely never experienced any form of abuse or exploitation in their lives.

3) Convince the Aspie that the "NT" genuinely likes the Aspie for him- or her-self, and not for their wealth, their property, or for any other potential social or economic benefit that the Apsie may represent. Spend time with the aspie, doing whatever the Aspie finds enjoyable, whether it is playing archaic board games, violent video games, or quiet card games.

4) Convince the Aspie that the "NT" wants to spend time with the Aspie, and not just hang around with the Aspie while the "NT" texts or talks with their real friends on their smart phones. Nothing says "false friend" more than someone who is physically with the Aspie, but mentally and emotionally engaged with someone else who is not even in the same room.

5) Start out with a slow, quiet, truthful, low-key approach. A simple self-introduction, followed by an expressed mutual interest usually works. Rushing in with a jumble of words in a loud voice induces anxiety, and is the same deceptive approach used by door-to-door salespeople to 'hook' a potential customer into buying their products and services. After several encounters with such people, it is much safer for an Aspie to say, "No, thank you" and walk away from a potential friendship than to risk being ripped off again.

6) Generally speaking, we Aspies do not like surprises, whether good or bad - a surprise birthday party can be just as stressful as a being cut off on the freeway. A sudden change in behavior from a friend can be baffling, especially when that 'friend' insists that "everything is fine". Even if the change is not due to something we said or did, we may still believe that it is somehow our fault, and that we could say or do something to make things better if only our "friends" would tell us the truth about why they're suddenly avoiding us or giving us the "cold shoulder" treatment.

7) Do not equate personal worth with personal wealth. Many Aspies are on limited or fixed incomes. If an Aspie cannot afford to take you out on a "date", then offer to pay for the date yourself. If you are not willing to do this, then you are better off dating your "NT" friends and leaving the Aspies alone.

8) Many of us do not enjoy interruptions, either. If you want to drop in on an Aspie friend, try to call ahead to see when would be a good time. The general idea is that whatever we've chosen to do at the moment is so important to us that any interruption will induce some form of anxiety. Some people understand and respect this; but most seem to interpret this as an excuse for me to 'screen' my visitors - then they will either drop by without warning anyway, or they don't drop by at all.

9) Be prepared for honesty. Not just the lack of lies, deceptions, and "head games"; but the kind of honesty you might expect from someone who does not ever notice if you are offended by the by what they say. For example, if you are overweight, and you ask your Aspie friend if wearing your new outfit makes you look fat, expect to receive and deal quietly with an answer like, "No, you were already fat before you put on that outfit". This is what some people call "brutal" honesty; but Aspies tend to not anticipate that you may be unable to handle this much honesty, and may not understand why you would be offended. After all, you would not want someone to lie, now would you?

10) Above all, know that Aspies are people with feelings, even though they may be unable to adequately and appropriately express those feelings in ways that people with Neuro-Typical personalities may accurately recognize and understand. We are not robots. We are not "Rainmen". We are neither space aliens nor angels/demons trapped in human bodies. We are not reincarnated souls. And we are neither the next step in human evolution, nor the result of cross-breeding with ancient humanoid species (i.e., Atlanteans, Neanderthals, Thetans, et cetera).

We Are People!

Deal with it!


You know, you make a lot of assumptions about NT's that are false. I'm almost beginning to wonder if you are NT yourself, since Aspies don't want NT's to make assumptions. It's a good thing that I (an NT) am here to represent the other side and to set you straight about a few things, otherwise, your "observations" regarding NT's would make us all look bad to other Aspies. Right now, I don't have time to "deal with it" or with you - my health is more important. I'm turning my email off and it's on to exercise.


Hahahahaha, people on the spectrum can make just as many assumptions as anyone else. I've found that those assumptions can sometimes be way more off base than an NT's assumptions about someone on the spectrum (btw, I don't really like the expression "NT" personally).


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01 Jul 2015, 12:26 am

Fnord wrote:
But we're not stupid. We see and hear what "NTs" do and say, and we pass along our observations to other Aspies, who in turn pass their observations along to us. This way, we protect each other from pretentious know-it-alls whose only apparent purpose for logging on to WP is to generate feelings of superiority over us for themselves, and to undermine the reputations that we have built up for ourselves in the WP community.


I laughed my bloody arse off at this. Seriously, I don't even know what to say to material like this.


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01 Jul 2015, 12:40 am

Fnord wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
You know, you make a lot of assumptions about NT's that are false. I'm almost beginning to wonder if you are NT yourself, since Aspies don't want NT's to make assumptions. It's a good thing that I (an NT) am here to represent the other side and to set you straight about a few things, otherwise, your "observations" regarding NT's would make us all look bad to other Aspies. Right now, I don't have time to "deal with it" or with you - my health is more important. I'm turning my email off and it's on to exercise.
I made no assumptions. I have reported observations. Note how many others agree with those observations and provide several of their own, as well.

Denial seems to be a common "NT" trait; even when confronted with facts regarding their behavior -- even when captured on video -- many people with neurotrophic personalities will deny their own behavior, try to pass it off as a misunderstanding on the part of the observer, or try to excuse it by citing any number of mitigating factors.

But if these descriptions truly do not fit some people, then perhaps they have something other than a neurotypic personality. Maybe they have undisclosed reasons or ulterior motives as you why they would want to pretend to like people with ASDs and then talk down to them, or even call them "ignorant" or "stupid".

There are "NTs" who seem to believe that a person with an ASD could not possibly know what the world is really like, or that we Aspies are so gullible that we would believe anything that an "NT" tells us.

But we're not stupid. We see and hear what "NTs" do and say, and we pass along our observations to other Aspies, who in turn pass their observations along to us. This way, we protect each other from pretentious know-it-alls whose only apparent purpose for logging on to WP is to generate feelings of superiority over us for themselves, and to undermine the reputations that we have built up for ourselves in the WP community.

I sincerely hope that you are not one of those people.


You know, Mr. Fnord, I don't think you deserve to even have my respect anymore because you sure aren't showing me any. You can keep spouting off all of your nonsense regarding NT's until the cows come home, but I'm through listening and I'm certainly through with trying to get you to understand why NT's are the way they are because you will never listen anyway and to be honest, I don't care anymore.


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Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


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01 Jul 2015, 12:57 am

LyraLuthTinu wrote:
Campin_Cat wrote:
Well, I, unfortunately, don't have time to read this entire thread----I DID read the whole first page, though----but, I wanted to add my 2 cents, and I'm hoping I'm not repeating what someone else already said.....

Please, somehow, understand that "stupid" and "smart" can reside in the same body / brain. Sure, we might be able to tell you the ENTIRE history of "whatever"----but, at-the-same-time, not be able to fill-out a simple form; and, we don't know why, that's just the way it is. (A theory of mine, is that it's because we can't do "simple", cuz there's nothing to analyze.)

Yeah, we might be able to do calculus in our head, and, at-the-same time, not be able to maintain a checking account ledger----and, we don't know why; that's just the way it is.

I can totally understand why that would be difficult to understand----but, let me tell ya, it's MUCH harder to LIVE [it].

Thanks, for asking!!



I agree, stupid is not a broad-spectrum brush that applies evenly to a whole person. I consider myself socially stupid but academically smart, for example. Lots of students seem to be smart with language and history and slow with math and science or vice-versa. And it's definitely possible to be brilliant with logic and completely idiotic about emotions and feelings!

I read that there are at least ten types of intelligence. This webpage breaks them down and gives a short description for each. I have #1, #2 and #4. The others I fall a bit lower than ten out of ten for! but sucking at #6 like most Aspies seem to doesn't make you stupid. I can't tell you how tired I got of hearing "you can't fix stupid" when I begged for explanations of why something I did or said didn't work socially.


I've seen a number of descriptions of the types of intelligence but this one was one of the most interesting thus far. If I had to pick out my own areas of strength I would say that I do well with 1, 2, 4, and 10. In all of the other areas I've found myself pretty lacking, although I feel I have definitely improved.


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01 Jul 2015, 1:46 am

nurseangela wrote:
Fnord wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
You know, you make a lot of assumptions about NT's that are false. I'm almost beginning to wonder if you are NT yourself, since Aspies don't want NT's to make assumptions. It's a good thing that I (an NT) am here to represent the other side and to set you straight about a few things, otherwise, your "observations" regarding NT's would make us all look bad to other Aspies. Right now, I don't have time to "deal with it" or with you - my health is more important. I'm turning my email off and it's on to exercise.
I made no assumptions. I have reported observations. Note how many others agree with those observations and provide several of their own, as well.

Denial seems to be a common "NT" trait; even when confronted with facts regarding their behavior -- even when captured on video -- many people with neurotrophic personalities will deny their own behavior, try to pass it off as a misunderstanding on the part of the observer, or try to excuse it by citing any number of mitigating factors.

But if these descriptions truly do not fit some people, then perhaps they have something other than a neurotypic personality. Maybe they have undisclosed reasons or ulterior motives as you why they would want to pretend to like people with ASDs and then talk down to them, or even call them "ignorant" or "stupid".

There are "NTs" who seem to believe that a person with an ASD could not possibly know what the world is really like, or that we Aspies are so gullible that we would believe anything that an "NT" tells us.

But we're not stupid. We see and hear what "NTs" do and say, and we pass along our observations to other Aspies, who in turn pass their observations along to us. This way, we protect each other from pretentious know-it-alls whose only apparent purpose for logging on to WP is to generate feelings of superiority over us for themselves, and to undermine the reputations that we have built up for ourselves in the WP community.

I sincerely hope that you are not one of those people.


You know, Mr. Fnord, I don't think you deserve to even have my respect anymore because you sure aren't showing me any. You can keep spouting off all of your nonsense regarding NT's until the cows come home, but I'm through listening and I'm certainly through with trying to get you to understand why NT's are the way they are because you will never listen anyway and to be honest, I don't care anymore.


I'm not trying to be mean, but I thought the point of this thread was for you to learn about what aspies would like from an NT, in order to make a friendship work. Many here, will take you literally, and answer specifically that. Which means we aren't talking about meeting in the middle. You seem to be upset that your question is being taken directly. While you might not agree with everything he has said, he is giving his own perspective, which is what you asked for. I don't see how he's been disrespectful. I have shared some of his same views because of the way that I have been treated. These things tend to make us want to keep more of a distance from people. This isn't for the purpose of being mean, but rather for self preservation. You might try stepping away and gaining some insight on what it's like for those who have dealt with large amounts of bullying and things of that nature. We all see the world through very different eyes. If you do not do the things that he has listed, there isn't a reason to be offended by them, but to understand that he's speaking from the perspective of his own life.



nurseangela
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01 Jul 2015, 2:07 am

JakJak wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Fnord wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
You know, you make a lot of assumptions about NT's that are false. I'm almost beginning to wonder if you are NT yourself, since Aspies don't want NT's to make assumptions. It's a good thing that I (an NT) am here to represent the other side and to set you straight about a few things, otherwise, your "observations" regarding NT's would make us all look bad to other Aspies. Right now, I don't have time to "deal with it" or with you - my health is more important. I'm turning my email off and it's on to exercise.
I made no assumptions. I have reported observations. Note how many others agree with those observations and provide several of their own, as well.

Denial seems to be a common "NT" trait; even when confronted with facts regarding their behavior -- even when captured on video -- many people with neurotrophic personalities will deny their own behavior, try to pass it off as a misunderstanding on the part of the observer, or try to excuse it by citing any number of mitigating factors.

But if these descriptions truly do not fit some people, then perhaps they have something other than a neurotypic personality. Maybe they have undisclosed reasons or ulterior motives as you why they would want to pretend to like people with ASDs and then talk down to them, or even call them "ignorant" or "stupid".

There are "NTs" who seem to believe that a person with an ASD could not possibly know what the world is really like, or that we Aspies are so gullible that we would believe anything that an "NT" tells us.

But we're not stupid. We see and hear what "NTs" do and say, and we pass along our observations to other Aspies, who in turn pass their observations along to us. This way, we protect each other from pretentious know-it-alls whose only apparent purpose for logging on to WP is to generate feelings of superiority over us for themselves, and to undermine the reputations that we have built up for ourselves in the WP community.

I sincerely hope that you are not one of those people.


You know, Mr. Fnord, I don't think you deserve to even have my respect anymore because you sure aren't showing me any. You can keep spouting off all of your nonsense regarding NT's until the cows come home, but I'm through listening and I'm certainly through with trying to get you to understand why NT's are the way they are because you will never listen anyway and to be honest, I don't care anymore.


I'm not trying to be mean, but I thought the point of this thread was for you to learn about what aspies would like from an NT, in order to make a friendship work. Many here, will take you literally, and answer specifically that. Which means we aren't talking about meeting in the middle. You seem to be upset that your question is being taken directly. While you might not agree with everything he has said, he is giving his own perspective, which is what you asked for. I don't see how he's been disrespectful. I have shared some of his same views because of the way that I have been treated. These things tend to make us want to keep more of a distance from people. This isn't for the purpose of being mean, but rather for self preservation. You might try stepping away and gaining some insight on what it's like for those who have dealt with large amounts of bullying and things of that nature. We all see the world through very different eyes. If you do not do the things that he has listed, there isn't a reason to be offended by them, but to understand that he's speaking from the perspective of his own life.


I was fine with anything he wanted to say until the "But we're not stupid" paragraph. I'm not going to be talked to like that from anyone - Aspie or NT. It's disrespectful and rude. That's all I'm going to say about that.


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


nurseangela
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01 Jul 2015, 2:16 am

JakJak wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
Fnord wrote:
nurseangela wrote:
You know, you make a lot of assumptions about NT's that are false. I'm almost beginning to wonder if you are NT yourself, since Aspies don't want NT's to make assumptions. It's a good thing that I (an NT) am here to represent the other side and to set you straight about a few things, otherwise, your "observations" regarding NT's would make us all look bad to other Aspies. Right now, I don't have time to "deal with it" or with you - my health is more important. I'm turning my email off and it's on to exercise.
I made no assumptions. I have reported observations. Note how many others agree with those observations and provide several of their own, as well.

Denial seems to be a common "NT" trait; even when confronted with facts regarding their behavior -- even when captured on video -- many people with neurotrophic personalities will deny their own behavior, try to pass it off as a misunderstanding on the part of the observer, or try to excuse it by citing any number of mitigating factors.

But if these descriptions truly do not fit some people, then perhaps they have something other than a neurotypic personality. Maybe they have undisclosed reasons or ulterior motives as you why they would want to pretend to like people with ASDs and then talk down to them, or even call them "ignorant" or "stupid".

There are "NTs" who seem to believe that a person with an ASD could not possibly know what the world is really like, or that we Aspies are so gullible that we would believe anything that an "NT" tells us.

But we're not stupid. We see and hear what "NTs" do and say, and we pass along our observations to other Aspies, who in turn pass their observations along to us. This way, we protect each other from pretentious know-it-alls whose only apparent purpose for logging on to WP is to generate feelings of superiority over us for themselves, and to undermine the reputations that we have built up for ourselves in the WP community.

I sincerely hope that you are not one of those people.


You know, Mr. Fnord, I don't think you deserve to even have my respect anymore because you sure aren't showing me any. You can keep spouting off all of your nonsense regarding NT's until the cows come home, but I'm through listening and I'm certainly through with trying to get you to understand why NT's are the way they are because you will never listen anyway and to be honest, I don't care anymore.


I'm not trying to be mean, but I thought the point of this thread was for you to learn about what aspies would like from an NT, in order to make a friendship work. Many here, will take you literally, and answer specifically that. Which means we aren't talking about meeting in the middle. You seem to be upset that your question is being taken directly. While you might not agree with everything he has said, he is giving his own perspective, which is what you asked for. I don't see how he's been disrespectful. I have shared some of his same views because of the way that I have been treated. These things tend to make us want to keep more of a distance from people. This isn't for the purpose of being mean, but rather for self preservation. You might try stepping away and gaining some insight on what it's like for those who have dealt with large amounts of bullying and things of that nature. We all see the world through very different eyes. If you do not do the things that he has listed, there isn't a reason to be offended by them, but to understand that he's speaking from the perspective of his own life.


Another thing. It's people who say things like that that cause the divide between Aspie and NT to be even wider. I'm not here to act superior. I am here to add what I can in experience as an NT and I also want to know more from any Aspie that can tell me things that will help in my Aspie friendships and maybe I can also make a few friends here along the way. I should hope that if Mr. Fnord went to an NT site he would be welcomed more than he has welcomed me here.


_________________
Me grumpy?
I'm happiness challenged.

Your neurodiverse (Aspie) score: 83 of 200
Your neurotypical (non-autistic) score: 153 of 200 You are very likely neurotypical
Darn, I flunked.


JakJak
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01 Jul 2015, 2:17 am

And you accused him of not being an aspie and said a few other things that I would consider rude. This isn't 100% on him. :P