For those who do actually make a living at your talent...

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This question is inspired by the following thread:

http://www.wrongplanet.net/postt179420.html

I want to ask a follow-up question for those that answered that thread with their "talent," and for anyone else who actually does make a living doing it.

I have found while searching for some way to do it myself that no matter what I tried to do, it always seemed to require some serious networking, at which, because of my Aperger's, I SUCK!

I have tried like the dickens for over ten years now to make enough connections to do what I really want to do, and I have not been able to make and maintain even one.

So how did you guys manage to find, connect, nurture, etc. the relationships necessary to do well in your field, in spite of your Autism??

A little follow up about me just to help avoid too much of the obvious advice.

I've read quite a few self-help and success books. I know all about changing your mindset, habits, attitude, etc.

It really wasn't until I spent years applying positive attitude, attempted to make connections, and did for a while, but most just fizzled out, that I realized how much my Autism was actually interfering with these simple, seemingly obvious (once you've learned them) principles. They work, yes, but only so much and so far. Not as well with me as with others around me who apply the same principles.

So what I guess I'm looking for are those of you who also had problems applying principles of independent, out of the box ways of making a living. And how you managed to make it work.

Really? No one?

Man, this is a very serious question. At least a couple of insightful answers, if there are any, would be extremely valuable to me.

I don't know, I am an artist, people want me to be weird. I am even expected to not wear a suit and tie.

Well, I was rather traditional. I was fortunate to get a good job working nights (less people interaction!) and then be able to go to school part time days to get my engineering degree. The company I worked for had a lot of "different" people in the engineering staff. Probably AS like me I suspect, so it worked out OK. I did have to learn to mimic NT behavior a lot and most important I needed a lot of alone, down time evenings and weekends in order to make it through the next week. It was tough, but I really did like the work I was doing and being around a lot of "characters" helped too, since I didn't feel so alone in being different, because they were too. I think that's why so many of us gravitate towards the sciences, engineering and math.

Does this help to answer your questions? If not, feel free to ask specific questions.

First, I threw out all of those self-help books after reaching the conclusion that the only "selfs" they helped were those involved in writing, publishing, and selling the books.

Second, I gave up my "quirky" dreams (such as writing adventure modules for AD&D), and focused on drafting, technical writing and electrical/electronic theory, with a little programming thrown in.

Third, I started networking my technical skills through technical networks, beginning with a few re-writes of instruction manuals and sales brochures of test gear and production equipment. Nothing kills a networking effort more than trying to network through an inappropriate network - I'd have never made it if I had used my tech-writing skill to re-write the Betty Crocker Cookbook, for example.

For everything, there is a time and a place...

(I'm treating your question as if it were asked by everyone here gracious enough to respond, so my response is to all as well.)

Actually, no. But not for lack of trying.

Trouble is, as we all probably know, It's really hard to ask for that which you do not even know exists. Or to put it in the old cliche: "I don't know what I don't know, so how can I ask for it?"

I appreciate all the replies so far, but all so far are pretty much "I do this, and this happened," but not about how you all personally MADE it happen.

It may help if I were to be more specific about what I WANT to happen for myself.

Ultimately, I do not want a "job." I want to work for myself. My primary interest is music. I'm a songwriter. Not a very good one, and the likelihood of making a living by it is slim to none, so I am open to many different other options to support my family while pursuing music. I have earned a degree in music technology, have a home studio with a plethora of software, and am very good at mixing, but there are virtually NO studios around here. I do have a very eclectic set of various other technical skills as well. Some in web design.

The specifics of them all, and what I would choose to focus on, don't really matter that much as pertains to this thread.

What I'm getting at is, I guess, specific to networking. If you're going to work for yourself, either as a business owner, or a freelancer of any kind, you can't do it alone. You have to find, and maintain contacts. You don't just put up a web site, or open a shop and people magically start showing up demanding your services.

Even if it were a *choke* job I were looking for, which I may have to settle on for a time, there are still networking type things one has to do to get the one you really want. For example, AspieWolf said he was "fortunate enough to get a good job..." but the reality is, I know too well, it's not just "good fortune" that gets you a job you want, or the business. YOU have to do something to make that happen.

I've done the job hunt thing, and I'm not that bad at it. What I AM bad at is getting a job that I don't burn out at in three years or less. I know now that the reason is that no job I've ever held was really what I have ever truly wanted to do. They were all nothing more than paychecks. Some better than others, and some I really did enjoy for a while, but all ended up eventually causing me so much stress from following company and "NT world" rules, I burned out on every one of them. Even the best of them caused physical illness.

I really need to find a way to live and work on my own terms as much as possible. And I know I need PEOPLE to do it. Not employees necessarily, but people to network with who I can find other contacts through, and work.

It's THAT part I fail at miserably. I make contacts, but they don't last, or nothing comes of them. I get emails offering work, respond to them, and then at some point I just stop getting replies. I have no idea why. After it happens so many times, with several different people, and sometimes even the same ones multiple times, you start to get the feeling you must be doing something wrong.

I think it's AS related. I don't know if I'm saying too much sometimes, saying the wrong things, or what. I've no idea, because these people just suddenly quit responding, so even if I ask, which i rarely do except for a few that know about my AS, I hear nothing back. Nothing substantially helpful anyway.

So what I'm hoping for is for anyone that does have to network with several or many other people on a regular basis in order to maintain a freelance career or business to share how they have managed to overcome any AS traits they have in order to do it.

Does that make sense now?

Maybe you found, as I did, that they only work so well for those of us with very real disabilities. I've personally known quite a few people who have put them to use and done very well for themselves, but none of them were Autistic. There are a lot of garbage books out there, and I've read a few, but most of the ones I have read actually have done me a lot of good. They just haven't done me as well as they have others, and I believe that is due to the Autism.



Well, that ain't gonna happen here. I gave up my own quirky dream a long time ago because I allowed myself to be talked out of it by a bunch of nay-sayers and negative talk. Two of them were my own parents. I've regretted it ever since. I few years ago, I decided to pick it up and pursue it again. This time, I refuse to listen to any of it. I'm happy when I write music, whether there is any money in it or not, and I will never give it up again. Ever.



Thanks. This is kind of obvious, not that I don't appreciate the info. I already know this though. What I'm looking for is more about how you managed, or if you even needed to, to overcome your AS traits in order to do this, and how you did.

I tend to be the sort of person who speaks up in class a lot, or goes to the prof and asks extra questions after lecture. So, a lot of my professors know me as "that eccentric kid who really likes learning". That's a good reputation to have. They don't mind doing the letters-of-recommendation thing, and I guess once I get closer to grad school they can probably help me get in more easily. Of course I still have to keep my grades high and do well on the GRE, but I can do that. Probably. Fingers crossed.

In the sciences, it's okay to be known as eccentric. Same with some other professions--anything creative, from writing to music. It's easiest for an NT to accept an eccentric person if the eccentric person is unapologetic about it.

Now, THAT, right there, is some of what I'm looking for! *applause!*



Callista, I'm assuming you mean this to be true in the creative fields, and not in all fields. Maybe this is part of where I'm going wrong. I am apologetic, sometimes to what some may consider a nauseating degree, I think. Maybe I've been doing myself a disservice by trying to be too sensitive to other people's feelings. I have more often of late been swaying toward just wanting to be myself and to hell what anyone thinks of it.

Maybe I do need to just quit explaining myself. The thing is, I end up doing that because of problems that occasionally come up. Usually they are problems that arise from my not clearly understanding my own position in a process, or how others perceive my position, or both. I was part of a college internship a couple of years ago, all online for me, whilst the others were all on the west coast, where they could meet face to face. The instructor running the program had to tell me to muzzle it at one point. He knows about my Autism though, and I told him to watch for anything I might do out of sorts and let me know, so I didn't take it personally. He was also kind enough to let me know in no uncertain terms that most of my messages were too long, and insisted I give him bullet lists, which helped a lot too.

I got a little frustrated with him though due to one project that he told me I had done great with. A day or two after that he picked it all apart, complaining about a bunch of details in it I had no way of knowing should have been different. Long story short, I wasn't getting paid for the work yet, and having to do it all over again (several hours of work) kind of ticked me off. The biggest problem was that the job entailed stuff unrelated to what I had studied for, and it was highly technical Photoshop work that I really didn't enjoy at all. I told him I was fine redoing it for him, but that in the future I would really rather be doing mixing work, which I was much better at. Well, I didn't hear from him for several months. Then he sent me an email asking if I'd like to do some work for him again. I answered with a brief "yes," then never heard back. Just recently, he contacted me again with the same offer. I told him a had a lot of family health issues to deal with so may not be as available on short notice as in the past, but still willing. It's been three weeks. Nothing.

This is only one example. There are many others. Contacts from them, replies from me. Then...

Nothing.

I'm not really a paranoid type at all, but when it happens consistently so many times, it's hard to imagine I'm not doing SOMETHING wrong. I just have no clue what it is.

Everyone in business says the same thing, it just keeps falling apart.

I had a very profitable computer repair service, then Katrina flooded out all of my customers. Windows XP automatically installed drivers, plug and play cost me a lot.

Fine when they cost several thousand, now a $400 laptops is a disposable.

So I went into publishing, because I could fix any machine. I had been repairing printers for others for years.

My main skill, besides understanding machines, was understanding customers, they did not want to unplug it and take it to the shop. Mobile service, my customers got me the next job.

Find a need, offer a service. I do not like doing one thing, forever, and the market changes. Core publishing has many edges.

It is what I do plus some expert knowledge spread around. I educate the customer, and sometimes I am not what they need.

I have a parts supplier, real good for some things. On their web site they list two other suppliers. There is some overlap, but each has part of the market to themselves. Between them I get almost all of what I need.

All three are helping all the customers. No one of them was much of the market. Just from the related spillover, they each doubled their business.

As for Autism, forget it, life is rough for everyone in business.

Recovering from disaster and starting over is the main skill.

Sometimes you are working for the rent and utilities, going out of business can put more in your pocket. I know a Hardware that moved it to a two car garage at home, sold it on ebay, and made more to keep than having a store.

We are like the farmer who lost money growing wheat, grew corn and made enough profit that he could go back to growing wheat. Enjoying it is the key.

Nothing lasts, but I find stuff to play with for a while.

Inventor, no offense, but I see from your profile that you aren't sure if you have Autism or not. If I had to guess solely from your post, I would say not.

"As for Autism, forget it?"

I don't even know what that means.

That right there. ^^ I have trouble, a LOT of trouble understanding people and what they want. Understanding customers doesn't sound like Autism at all to me.

I could be wrong though, and I'm not saying you don't have it, but there is one other reason to suspect you might not even understand fully what it is.

You don't seem to have even come close to understanding the question, which is, "How have you managed to overcome your Autistic traits to maintain a reliable contact network?"

Doesn't sound to me like you've ever had to overcome any to do so.

Just saying how it sounds to me.

The whole tone of your post sounds to me like, "Just pull up your bootstraps and do it. Autism's got nothing to do with it. Toughen up."

With the traits I have, it's just not that simple. Been there, done that. It doesn't work. It doesn't work because I have certain traits that are getting in the way. All I want to do is figure out which ones they are, and what I can do to overcome them.

Last edited by MrXxx on 07 Nov 2011, 1:35 am, edited 1 time in total.

I make some money every year as an artist. I have sold a number of paintings, but not enough to make a so-called living. However, the money does come in handy. I guess I am a good enough painter that people like my work.

i did not read the small book you wrote above, But, whats going on with you? I remember every time i ranted and raved you would type something positive, now your the one complaining about AS?

well let me give you some 'positive advice'

"Look at the bright side"

Panic, this isn't a rant. If you had read the whole post, you might have seen that it wasn't. Not picking, just saying. It's a constructive search for knowledge and advice. The only missing piece (which traits of my own are getting in the way), I'll have to fill in myself probably.

I could never understand why people found networking so easy , as a result the industry i work in is full of talentless people who's social skills have allowed them to get places easily and play the right clubs etc , i always resented these people but had a secret sense of satisfaction that i have always been booked on talent alone and these people are just DJs playing other peoples records while i do a unique live show .

Social networking and online promotion has been the key for me , I have built up a large global following by turning my obsessive nature to web promotion. I also target people in my industry via Facebook (used to be myspace) and skype chat where i am on an equal paring socially with NTs . So basically i don't do and never have been able to do "networking" in the traditional sense of the word but have found ways around it ... and yes being a bit weird and a recluse helps my image of being a techno geek/genius which is great for PR