What’s the Deal With Us, Anyway?
So…Cracked.com’s Robert Evans sat down recently with several high-functioning autistic folks. Since I wasn’t one of them, I get to offer my own perspective Potshot Privileges.
Yeah, pop culture gets it wrong sometimes. What else is new?
Oh yes, many of us are either unemployed or underemployed, friendless and/or alone. And that’s not really represented on screen, eg, “The Big Bang Theory”.
(As for sarcasm…yes, that’s hard for many Aspies to detect. So are lies to hurt others’ feelings. I’d say both of these are about as easy (difficult?) for any given Aspie to learn.)
Remember the first big black sitcom, “The Cosby Show”?
Now, “Good Times” did a fairer job of representing how many black families were actually making out. Inner-city housing project, welfare (including an older woman actually living on dog food), gangs, even violence. Fairer…and way more depressing. Some would say even prejudicial…people may have started to think (or think even more) that blacks are just poor folks who live off welfare and roam the streets in gangs.
Whereas “The Cosby Show” was full of upper-middle-class blacks whom you’d love to go to dinner or even on vacation with. Whatever its shortcomings — including, ahem, whitewashing many black people’s suffering — it helped the rest of us feel more comfortable around blacks.
Basically, people have a hard time understanding, in their heart of hearts, that bad things can happen to good people. So when they see people in low-level jobs, low-rent housing or the bad part of town, they wonder: How did they go wrong?
And hence, if John Q. Public now sees Aspies with college and graduate degrees behind the counter at McDonald’s (or unemployed altogether), staying home seven nights a week and living there all by themselves, he’s likely going to figure that Aspies are lazy ne’er-do-wells. Better to pave the way first with shows like “The Big Bang Theory”.
That’s really the main reason why Autism Speaks sucks. They portray us as burdens who will never get married or lead anything close to normal lives.
I get that they’re trying to show how individuals and families with autism suffer…but if they made a similar film about black people or GLBTs, they’d be boycotted en masse and their CEO would get fired.
Autism Speaks wants a cure…and I know there’s a divide among Aspies on that. It depends on whether you see autism as more like homosexuality or more like cerebral palsy.
Where their money goes, and their Aspie-free board, we all know about. Booo!
Speaking of money, that’s a big obstacle to getting an actual diagnosis. Health insurance costs, specialist bills and all that. Another obstacle — a much bigger one sometimes — is just knowing that it might apply to you. So sometimes self-diagnosis is vital.
About a dozen years ago, my then-girlfriend Emily Googled some of my more…interesting traits and came up with “Asperger Syndrome”. Then she told me about it and made me read articles and books on the subject.
By the time I did get diagnosed, several years after that (by which time we were married), it was anti-climactic. And many other Aspies have experienced it the same way. It’s not like, say, a diagnosis of cancer or diabetes.
One of the things my diagnosis helped me deal with was my lifelong problem of people complaining about how cold I was (in their perception). Knowing that AS makes it tough for us to (appropriately) express our emotions, now I’ve been able to both work on my tone and manner* and also explain my situation and ask for understanding.
So, thank you Cracked for spreading the word on that.
More broadly, yes indeed we do tend to focus on stuff neurotypicals (NTs) don’t, and so we interpret things very differently and express ourselves very differently. And yes, it helps to be very direct but not personally attack us for not reading your minds.
As in, if an Aspie you don’t particularly like asks you out: “Thank you for asking, but I’m not interested.”
Not: “Oh that’s so sweet of you, and I’d love to go, that’s great…I’m going to be out of town that weekend.”
(Or for that matter: “Oh sure I’d love to go. Let’s meet there at 7:30″ and then not show up…or call him at 7:00 to cancel, agree to a new time and date, cancel that on similar short notice and repeat until he gets the hint.)
Also not: “Not just no but hell no! I’m not that desperate.”
(Never mind Bigfoot. One of life’s great unsolved mysteries is why people — but especially women — have to swing to one extreme or the other, instead of just refusing in a matter-of-fact way.)
And, thank you very much for pointing out that we sometimes have problems at work. Sometimes our traits cause problems for people. Other times, people have a problem with the condition itself.
As I always advise people, at least in the U.S. if you do decide to disclose, only do so after you’ve gotten a firm job offer. At a minimum, it should state what your title will be, when you will start and what you will be paid, and it need to be in writing and signed. If the employer doesn’t do written offers, wait until you’re already on the job and have filled out your paperwork.
“What? Aren’t there laws to protect me?” Yes — exactly. Precisely because most U.S. employers are required to accommodate disabled employees — which can be an expensive proposition in money, time and even stomach lining — they have every incentive not to want to hire anyone who’s disabled. And if they find out you have a disability before finalizing your hire, they can turn you down and good luck proving it was because of your condition.
(This may also help explain why some blogs, websites and social media pages by Aspies are pseudonymous or anonymous.)
[*] ProTip: Sometimes people just want to “make conversation,” and they expect a response even if they didn’t literally ask you a question and even if you don’t care about what they’re talking about.
What do you think?
Jeff Deutsch
34 thoughts on “What’s the Deal With Us, Anyway?”
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By asplint
March 24, 2015
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Comments
I loved the dating references I have always failed to understand why women are so dishonest in matters of dating and the heart, they are supposed to be the sensitive ones.
Hello RoyalBlood,
Women are dishonest in affairs of the heart (and other matters)…because people are dishonest.
Female, male, Aspie, NT, black, white, old, young…dishonesty is a human thing. At most, different kinds of people may tend to differ in a few ways about how they’re not fully honest.
Jeff Deutsch
First I was speaking only of the dishonesty of women in relation to romance and only women in relation to romance. I was not discussing honesty in general.I would have said that if I was.
But as to women I think it is more than that, women are taught to be kind and expected to be kind, and many times they may lie to not hurt feelings. But in not hurting us they leave us confused and distraught because we say what we mean and mean what we say. There are kind ways to say I do not want to be your girl friend but I want to be your friend, many adolescent males have heard that line before. However for aspies that process endlessly until something is logical, they want to know why.Why do you want to go out with this loser or that dirt bag and yet I am not worthy? And that dissonance is painful, especially for a 16 year old boy with gallons of testosterone flowing in his blood.
I can relate to this sort of situation although when I think of the three major unrequited infatuations of the past eighteen years I think only the first young lady was ever really cruel and even she had earlier been quite direct about asking why I was always staring at her, and upon receiving no satisfactory (or honest) reply plainly declared she did not like it; only years later did she and two of her friends find it ABSOLUTELY necessary to torment me into believing that she was actually fornicating with someone, hoping to disgust and repel me into going away, and by that stage I was rather at fault as well.
The second, whom I had actually been friends with and at times fancied during the previous case (which had gone from when I was fifteen years old in year 9 until when I was eighteen years old and in year twelve – although I have recently had vivid memories fifteen years later) so I did occasionally consider other girls as potential sweethearts)who had also been a friend of the other girl, though not one of those involved in the dastardly scheme of manipulation, came (I believe, though I have no direct proof)to suspect that my interest in her during university may have been less than Platonic due to the frequency of my calls (I had spoken to most of her family at one point) and so, I think quite kindly, casually mentioned the existence of her then boyfriend (and now husband).
The third I had been friends with for years from church and had always considered beautiful in a quiet and understated way but had long been reluctant to indulge in lustful thoughts about. In that case I had no sooner confided in my mother that I was growing more strongly attracted to this young lady than I learned in no uncertain terms that she (Mum) had heard from another acquaintance that she (the young lady) already had a boyfriend (again her current husband). After which of course I should have been endeavouring to purge my mind of all thoughts of anything other than friendship with regard to her, and indeed I did not intend for her to know about my feelings, but during a period of not seeing her I foolishly rang her a few times (probably more frequently than it appeared to me) because I missed our conversations and wanted to hear the sound of her voice again (I know that common sense should have told me that I should have treated the prolonged absence as a blessing in disguise and an opportunity to strive to get over her) leading her to be sufficiently concerned to confide in her brother, who confronted me, leading me to break very easily under interrogation, probably ending in him feeling rather sorrier for me than I really deserved. So I cannot fairly accuse two of these ladies of being either dishonest or unkind, and one had at least tried an honest approach and had been kind earlier. It must be a very difficult thing to deal with for someone to deal with an unwanted suitor.
As an Aspie woman, I find the romantic dishonesty from men to be equal to what the comments are saying about women. I believe it is more an NT thing that something gender specific.
RoyalBlood Check out Dr. Nerdlove’s website. I think you will find it very valuable, I know I have. I agree that this is something women do more than men because of the way we are socialized to give a soft “no”, for a variety of very valid reasons. Even Aspie women feel this conditioning and suffer socially because we DON’T do it as much as expected. But NT men also do this – as a (I’m presuming) hetero male, you don’t have that perspective personally.
My husband and I have a hard time negotiating this difference in verbal approach because we’re the opposite of the typical male-female pattern of interaction (he is indirect and I’m very direct). I think male-Aspie/female NT couples may ultimately have an easier time because their tendencies are more along the lines of what’s expected socially. But long story short, romantic relationships are hard to negotiate even for NTs – and throw Aspie on top of it and yeah, wrong-planetness ensues.
What do you mean by “self-diagnosis?” This:
Another obstacle — a much bigger one sometimes — is just knowing that it might apply to you. So sometimes self-diagnosis is vital.
doesn’t make any sense to me because self-diagnosis is way beyond “knowing that it might apply to you.”
I’ve noticed that you say two things.
>Oh yes, many of us are either unemployed or underemployed, friendless and/or alone. And that’s not really represented on screen, eg, “The Big Bang Theory”.
>That’s really the main reason why Autism Speaks sucks. They portray us as burdens who will never get married or lead anything close to normal lives.
To be honest, I think shows like “The Cosby Show” only make us comfortable around blacks that succeeded, and in fact, widen false perceptions. Sometimes we must face reality.
Ylevental, good point about facing reality.
Thing is, mass media — including certain social media, like Facebook — also create reality. They introduce issues — and sometimes different kinds of people — to John Q. Public.
When you go on a job interview, do you look, smell, act and talk your best? Or do you just show your real self…bed head, frayed T-shirt, 5 o’clock shadow/hairy legs, “like, you know” and all?
I really like the responses to the YouTube video linked within this sentence, ‘That’s really the main reason why Autism Speaks sucks’, that appear within the comments section. The film itself is just absolutely disgraceful, nothing but a long sequence of completely selfish and whiny ‘mothers’ complaining about how hard it is for THEM to look after a ‘disabled’ child. One of them even mentions – with a smile on her face! – how much better it would be if she killed her autistic child, but came to the realisation that she couldn’t do it because then there would be no one to look after her other, ‘normal’ one.
‘Autism Speaks’ needs to be exposed for what it is: an organisation that wants to exterminate those it considers to be abnormal. A hate group that poses as a charity, and which exploits the generosity (and ignorance) of donors who don’t understand what they really stand for.
“There are kind ways to say I do not want to be your girl friend but I want to be your friend, many adolescent males have heard that line before.” –Royal Blood
It’s been years since I dated (I’ve been with my hubby for a wonderful 27 years), but I can say with certainly that many women know that turning someone down will likely hurt or disappoint them at least a little. There’s just no way of knowing exactly in what way or how much it will hurt. It can’t be avoided.
Even the “I like you as a friend” explanation can hurt, so some women (and men) don’t want to use or hear that, either. Some people know that it can be used as a lame excuse because sometimes the person who says it doesn’t actually want to be friends at all! There’s just no one way to turn someone down that will work for all people, in all situations. Really; no one single way. On top of that, sometimes a person can’t put a precise or simple response into words at all. Other times, an NT will just get a “bad vibe” about someone and they really don’t want to admit that some primitive, sub-conscious instinct is warning them to stay away!
My best advice is that, if you want a truly direct response that may detail your “undesirable” traits, explain why (as in “I’m an Aspie”), and make it clear that a truly concrete, specific answer will NOT hurt you nearly as much as a polite one. Even then, please know that some people just don’t want to reveal that much of themselves; you may just have to respect their privacy.
HTH.
Assuming your question about women and being frank is an honest one and not douchbaggery:
For women, turning a man down can be a dangerous situation. In the extreme, some men react so badly to rejection that they will stalk us and hurt us, as in kidnap and rape us. That is an uncommon scenario, but one that we are all very aware of. More commonly, when men are upset because they have been rejected, they will hurt us in more subtle ways. For example, they may talk behind our backs, call us names to our face, or do deliberately things to make us uncomfortable. In general, we are more likely to meet men in authority than other women, and men are more likely to be friends with these authority figures, which means that pissing you off can be dangerous for us.
Sometimes, we do nasty things like say we will meet you and then don’t show up. You can chalk this up to anxiety in most cases. In a few cases, people are assholes, and sometimes women are assholes.
You should be aware that calling women out like this makes YOU seem like the a$$hole.
Women are not “supposed to be the sensitive ones.” We are supposed to be human, just like men. This means we f#ck-up sometimes.
Women are not “mysterious.” We are human. Sometimes, we act like a$$holes. Why can’t men understand that that we are simply acting like a$$holes and not “acting like women?”
Oh look, an SJW
Name-calling is not productive to this conversation. tagnacious makes a lot of excellent and spot-on points about why women in American culture in general and some women in particular act the way they do. These reasons in no way invalidate RoyalBlood’s personal experiences and personal pain with dating, nor do I get the sense that he is an a**hole. He only has his own experiences to draw on and like anyone, may make erroneous assumptions based on that. We can explore both sides without making personal attacks.
ylevental You’re not helping the discussion, nor adding anything of value by using that acronym.
Male/female, most of us have rocky stories to tell about relationships since social communication is one of the diagnostic criteria.
What I don’t understand is in this age, with so much easily accessed info, people are still making stereotypical remarks about demographic labels (e.g. women, blacks, aspies, texans, etc.).
Boxing others up by their labels will never lead to increased understanding b/c it perpetuates ignorance.
Expectations. What are your expectations of an NT? Are your expectations fair? Are you being realistic in your expectations? Oftentimes I don’t think Aspies are being fair or realistic.
Aspergers isn’t an obvious disability. Nobody can look at you and say, “He’s Aspie.” Or “She’s Autistic.” How can you expect and NT to know you have a disability unless you disclose that? Answer: You can’t. Since the NT can’t know you have a disability, is it fair to expect them to interact with you logically and literally? Answer: No it’s not.
Most people try to be careful with other people’s emotions. Emotions can cause a lot of psychological damage and people generally try to be respectful of that. So when someone rejects a suitor they try to do it in a way that minimizes the emotional backlash of the rejection. You should expect it and learn to see it in the light in which it’s delivered. NTs aren’t trying to disrespect you – they are trying to be respectful of you. Most of them, anyway.
Until and unless you come across an NT that knows you’re an Aspie and understands how to interact with you, you should be using a different yardstick to judge people by. Learning to get along is a two-way street. It’s not all up to the NT to change and adapt.
I have ADHD (don’t you dare call me an NT). I know what it is to be misunderstood by the world. I know what it is to have to adjust my understanding of the world in order to learn how to get along in it. I realize it’s a lot harder for Aspies to do it because their brains are wired a little more differently from mine, but it’s possible.
On second thought…. Maybe “understanding” is the wrong word. Maybe “accepting” is better.
I hope I haven’t offended anyone. If I have, I apologize. Sometimes in trying to make myself clear I word things in a way I shouldn’t. I’ve reread and rewritten this several times in an effort to not be offensive, so I hope this is taken in the way I mean it to be.
Beautifully put. You’re very insightful. I didn’t find it offensive at all. I am going to copy this down and read it from time to time to help me keep my expectations of others in check. I often lose perspective especially when I’m frustrated and/or upset. Words to live by. Thanks for this.
“Expectations. What are your expectations of an NT? Are your expectations fair? Are you being realistic in your expectations? Oftentimes I don’t think Aspies are being fair or realistic.”
Okay, so what are the realistic and fair expectations that we all should have?
“Aspergers isn’t an obvious disability. Nobody can look at you and say, “He’s Aspie.” Or “She’s Autistic.” How can you expect and NT to know you have a disability unless you disclose that? Answer: You can’t. Since the NT can’t know you have a disability, is it fair to expect them to interact with you logically and literally? Answer: No it’s not.”
Here is the problem with that. Even disclosing it may not help. A lot of times they will say that I’m making excuses, being negative or they don’t believe aspergers exist.
“Most people try to be careful with other people’s emotions. Emotions can cause a lot of psychological damage and people generally try to be respectful of that. So when someone rejects a suitor they try to do it in a way that minimizes the emotional backlash of the rejection. You should expect it and learn to see it in the light in which it’s delivered. NTs aren’t trying to disrespect you – they are trying to be respectful of you. Most of them, anyway.”
If I tell them that I have a disability, I tell them I take things very literally and I do not get what they’re saying and they still respond the exact same way, then what?
“Until and unless you come across an NT that knows you’re an Aspie and understands how to interact with you, you should be using a different yardstick to judge people by. Learning to get along is a two-way street. It’s not all up to the NT to change and adapt.”
You’re right, it is a two-way street. Here is the problem. In the US, we live in a user pays system. For some of us it is very difficult to get social skills training. Another thing, is the average joe willing to sit down with us and provide guidance, assistance and instruction? The issue I have with this is we’re expected to do this on our own with no guidance and support at all and we’re supposed to “Pull ourselves by our bootstraps.” Without guidance and explanations on some things, some of us cannot. By the way, just because one member is a subset of x doesn’t mean all or the majority members or a subset of x. In otherwords, just because Temple Grandin and Jeffery can doesn’t mean all of us or the majority of us can either.
It’s the same thing with poverty. This man who owns a company called Dieseltec and who uses the handle Dieseltec believes that just because he was able to pull himself up from poverty that anyone else and everyone else can as well.
Some of us CAN’T meet you in the middle without instruction, guidance and assistance to do so which includes telling people why to be themselves when we know for certain this is not true.
“I have ADHD (don’t you dare call me an NT). I know what it is to be misunderstood by the world. I know what it is to have to adjust my understanding of the world in order to learn how to get along in it. I realize it’s a lot harder for Aspies to do it because their brains are wired a little more differently from mine, but it’s possible.”
Hasty generalization. Just because it is possible for some doesn’t mean it is possible for all.
“I hope I haven’t offended anyone. If I have, I apologize. Sometimes in trying to make myself clear I word things in a way I shouldn’t. I’ve reread and rewritten this several times in an effort to not be offensive, so I hope this is taken in the way I mean it to be.”
Okay, it isn’t the words you say that offend me or even how you use them. Yeah, I may get upset at first but I will come back and examine what people say. I do wish we would all get rid of the politically correct bullshit.
Would be much easier if there was a clear courtship protocol established.
This would make things so much logical and simple for both men and women, don’t you think so ?
Look at good ol’nature, even pigeons agree
I’ve had aspie men make dates with me and then not show up more than once. One time I called one at home because I was pissed and wanted to know why he didn’t show up and he hung up the phone on me. I can’t even count all the times men I’ve gone out with (aspies and NTs)have used the old “I’m going out of town” (that one is real popular with men. I cannot even express how stupid it is) because they don’t want to go out with me again but don’t want to hurt my feelings, even though I don’t have any problem if they never call me again. They also say that so that some time in the future if they change their mind about dating me they can just call and say they just got back in town so would I like to get together. I always say no, BTW.
A man once made a date with me over the phone. Then called right back to ask me why I’ve never been married. Then called off the date because I’ve never been married. WTF. Did I get my wittle feelings hurt because these men didn’t say the things I thought they should or act the way I thought they should? I was annoyed for about one minute and then I MOVED ON.
Everybody is weird. People aren’t perfect and don’t always know how to perfectly handle every situation. Yes, even NTs. Instead of dictating to women what we are supposed to say to spare your feelings, how about toughen up. Life is tough. That is just the way it is and always will be.
Accentuate the positive! Eliminate the negative!! (Words from a song popular in WWII).
It has been said that Aspies excel in math, analysis and computer programming, There are indications those fields will be very influential in the future. It is not unreasonable to suggest that countries that best utilize their population of Aspies will dominate the world scene. If the trend of increasing importance of getting information and controlling the flow of information continues, it is not hard to envision a world in which Aspies are treated like rock stars. Aspies should develop an interest in information technology (if not already in IT) and help young Aspies get education in that field as much as possible.
In social situations Aspies are usually at a disadvantage due our different thought patterns, lack of eye contact, imperfect facial recognition. etc.. On the Internet these qualities are invisible or at least less obvious. We should use the social aspects of Wrong Planet and participate as much as practical in all social networks before meeting in social situations.
The ‘inventor’ of ADHD, said when he was dying, that he invented the whole thing, so ADHD does not exist.
Furthermore, I have a short attention span…I have no more patience for long texts like these…after 2 or 3 paragraphs, I quit. I think it is too much info we get form all the social media…I give up…
The ‘inventor’ of ADHD, said when he was dying, that he invented the whole thing, so ADHD does not exist.
Furthermore, I have a short attention span…I have no more patience for long texts like these…after 2 or 3 paragraphs, I quit. I think it is too much info we get from all the social media…I give up…
Jeff is right about disclosure. I find myself fired every time I do it. Now with data bases on everyone this is shared by corporations . I think this is the reason why the unemployment went up to 85%. 10 points or so since 2009 or so.
We are truly stuck because without disclosure we cannot get accommodation , without accommodation we cannot function well on that job. I mean how can I ask them to get rid of fluorescent lights? Or turn off the digital music? Its horrible . To experience .
I dont depend on the NT world anymore. I cant afford to after being repeatedly exploited in relationships, by my family and in jobs. These days, I do for myself, use my cognitive functioning to my benefit and generally cant be bothered with all the shenanigans in the allistic world. If I meet someone who is reliably consistent and rational, I am reasonably pleased.
Money gives one power in the allistic world – we are forever being told that everyone has a price – logically there must be some truth to it – so that is what I intend to get lots of using my skills.
Actually, I think I’m quite good at sarcasm, and good at picking it up. In fact, I think most people are just rude when they think they are being clever. On the other hand, I do need people to be precise when explaining things. Apparently I have some sort of learning difficulty but I am also a member of Mensa with 6 university qualifications. I am a social and economic failure, but I enjoy solitude and I have been able to retire with some modest economic security. But I don’t know why people keep mumbling that I’m weird, as if they think I can’t hear them; or why their jaws drop when I look as if I’m about to speak to them.
The dating reference and being direct is excellent!! I had a tormentor that would call and say”i love you and Miss you , call me!” Then he would behave as if I was annoying him when I called and presented the situation as if I were harassing him. He then went around in all the company and told people I was crazy. Why do I care what he said? He and his words against me changed how everyone interacted with me I became a scape goat and Leper. Suffered scape goating many times since with a couple in my town and this therapist that pretty much played the institutional grooming game on me.
Finding out about this way of being has changed my life. I simply see things differently. I am not stupid or disabled or crazy! I don’t want to be diagnosed or treated or, Dog forbid, “cured”! I am not going to apologise or agonise or feel substandard any more. I feel freed. Thank you!
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on the contrary i find asd folks to be exceedingly honest. i think nt culture is premised on an ego-emotional neurological binary foundation and this is why social lying is such an embedded feature and why aspergian matter of factness is so frowned upon.
there is no “deal” with “us”. its nt intolerance for diversity of any kind that has created this fallacious and forced binary imaginary.