Why can't our son make friends?

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On the flip side of Tracker's post, I'm usually desperately-lonely, and
my mother often expresses concerns about me "not having anyone", meaning not knowing a soul in the city where I live.
I've lived here for five years.
I tell her that I'm too busy with school for socializing anyway, so she won't worry, but nothing could be further from the truth.
I don't know how college can be said to be better than high school- in my case, high school was at least a place of familiarity, my having been with the same group 6th grade through senior year, and socialization is a part of certain curricula, IE group work and such.
In college, it gets far worse, I feel- people only talk to their friends, and I don't know what to do to make someone want to talk to me, since I have no clue what to say to a perfect stranger, myself: "Hello, would you be interested in mulling over meta-ethical questions on the weekends?" Some people here say to pursue friendships with acquaintances, but I don't have any acquaintances.

Sorry to ramble. I just wanted to point out that just because someone says or acts like being utterly-alone doesn't bother them, that doesn't mean that's the case.

"Academic abilities" do not exist in a vacuum. I'm on academic suspension from my first college, a four year university, because for two years I floundered in loneliness and had not yet found the coping abilities to be alone for weeks on end. I missed many classes because I was in my dorm, too depressed to get out of bed. It's possible I had some sort of executive dysfunction disorder, but it's hardly a stretch to say "social" woes are more than just frivolous- they can cut our self esteem to the core, which destroys our will to even try, and given that the transition to college is hellacious even for many NT's, that's more than enough to spell failure in some cases.

I don't mean to be Nancy Negative, merely to emphasize that isolation can be a natural state of being for some,
and absolutely-devastating, with many consequences, for others,
many of whom pretend to be in the first group lest their family worry about them.

It is true that I am doing better than many of the children that parents post about on this forum, but I don't think that discounts the value of my advice. If anything, it makes my advice more relevant because I am facing similar difficulties, yet have found a way to make it work. Imagine if you were having marriage problems. Would you only take advice from divorced people because they are also failing at their marriage, or would you seek advice from a happily married couple that has dealt with marriage difficulties and successfully handled it?

That being said, I don't think that you understand the point I was trying to make about online gaming. So let me try again:

Playing online gaming (in particular MMOs) is like eating. Eating food is good because it allows you to function, it gives you the energy you need to survive. But if you eat too much, you wind up becoming obese and there are problems.

Likewise, online gaming is a great way to enjoy yourself, relax, make friends, and get the respect and socialization that is very hard to get in real life. Online gaming is where I made the majority of my friends in college and it helped me in many ways. It wasn't just a distraction, it was a great source of information, and a learning experience in how people worked. I really cannot understate the benefits. However, much like eating, if you do it too much, then there can be problems.

But the solution is not to ban online gaming and take away all electronics. That would be like banning food because you are afraid of obesity. The solution is to learn good priorities, schedule management, and self restraint. Because the truth is that those are what allow you to function. The fact is that anything can be distracting and addicting, not just gaming. I have known people to stay home all day and watch TV, or read internet forums, or even read books instead of working. Should you also ban TV, internet, and books?

The point I am trying to make is that you need to stop focusing on what the distraction is, and instead focus on teaching important skills like prioritizing and so forth. Once the skills are in place, then the distractions can be managed without having to ban them or set artificial limits.

Talk about being misunderstood.

This is the problem with posting on a chat board versus face to face conversation.

I am NOT saying teens and young adults who are having social issues should not be in College. And I am not implying that if you get a degree you still don't have Aspie issues. And no not everyone has to go to College to have a great life. So sorry if I inadvertently offended anyone, that was not my intention at all.

I know online games are very social, I get that. In fact when my son first started playing World of Warcraft, I was pleased because he was having fun, interacting with mostly adults and was a respected player. Unfortunately this became the only thing he wanted to do, to the detriment of his grades in school and his social life.

It is complicated. That is all I can say.

Some people manage to balance their game time/computer time with the rest of their life and others do not.

If you wish to be more social, you have to learn the social codes of the NT world, and there are now many places where you can learn this stuff, I posted a link to one such website, posted above.

If you are happy with the way you are, then God bless it and carry on. I believe John Robison the author, was very happy to learn about the ways of the NT world and some coping techniques, which he covers in his most recent book.

But this thread was started by a concerned Dad about his teenage son, and that is who I was responding to with my original post...

Hoping to kind of bridge your mental gap, here, Painting...

I have a college degree in education. I write almost full time, and I've published two books (I also blog frequently, post on forums, answer emails, and I'm working out a contract with a nationwide company to consult and do writing for them). And guess what? I don't have AS or HFA. I'm more or less moderately autistic. Partially verbal, stimming, punching/biting/picking/yelling/squealing, tics, 8-medications-to-keep-me-from-freaking out, one friend in real life and only because her son has AS... autistic.

Now, my brain is such that I was able to spend 12 hours a day on the internet and still get 4.00s (and I went to a difficult college). I say this not at all to brag but because it's crucial to understanding all of this. But, I'm not using that piece of paper to support myself in any way. I DO use what I learned in college. And now, I use what I have learned in combination with the way I was created to exist, which is to WRITE. A lot of my writing involves the internet.

Oh, and I have friends online, too. Many. I have friends ASD and not, parents and kids, rich and poor, educated and no HS diploma.

A lot of times, the way a person with autism finds who he is or finds happiness or finds success isn't the way people expect him to do it.

One way to make friends/find work is to get really good at something. So, both to the OP and to PaintingDiva, I would recommend working with your kids to find a strong interest- it can be anything- and then help them to develop that interest.

Actually, I have been under the impression that Tracker floundered a lot. And without much of the kind of help we are able to give or obtain for our kids. But he was fortunate in being to make the best of it, and accomplish goals anyway. It is really hard to predict which kids are going to pull it together despite their challenges, and which aren't, but if I had to guess, I would say the make or break is in the co-morbids like anxiety and depression. But that can come and go, too. Point being, don't ever assume that just because someone with AS appears to be making it, that they don't have valuable insights to offer. In my experience, they have everything to offer. I could not have done half with my son that I have without the input from people like Tracker.

How is it with your son, btw? I know you have a very long road ahead of you there, but are you feeling like you've been able to make any progress, or at least set a script?

A little separately, to the OP, I do put a caution out there about MMO's / on-line gaming. As I mentioned in another thread, some games are more addictive than others, and I strongly recommend AGAINST using World of Warcraft (WOW) in particular, or anything built on the same raiding model, to obtain a social life, because too many people are having trouble keeping it in it's box. I had always figured it was all fine, but there have been enough stories now for me to realize that parents really do need to help their children be careful. And yes, as Tracker said, I think teaching kids to choose moderation on their own is the best long term. It is too easy for on-line gaming to turn from a nice little social outlet into an unhealthy addiction, and from something used for self-calming into something that takes over a person's life. Some games draw out more negatives than others, and getting familiar with the game patterns and how vested the participants are is useful. WOW seems to be the worst, just anecdotally. It was also interesting to see a quote a few days from Temple Gradin, and I'm afraid I don't have the context, about how half the employees in Silicon Valley are probably Aspies, but she has seen kids with the same technical interests living out in the middle of nowhere, wasting the same skill set in on-line game addiction. My son loves gaming, but he has been actively inventing and programming games since he was 11; this could become a career for him and, if not, at least he has learned the syntax of programming. He plays when he has no ideas of his own, but he comes alive creating. I don't know what makes that difference; is it as simple as having had the chance to take a tech class after school when he was 11? Sorry, WHOLE other topic ... just, I think MMO's are great, but. Don't forget the but.

As for the OP's original question, I don't think there is much you can do at this age beyond getting to know other parents, finding out whose children may have similar interests, and seeing if you can ever get those kids to talk to each other. It took two years to get my son to talk to the boy around the corner, even though both sets of parents knew the kids shared some very important interests. Now they are together all the time, although it isn't exactly smooth sailing: they can REALLY drive each other nuts, so that takes some counseling from the parents, as well. Sometimes my son doesn't want to have any friends; the stress can get to him, but somehow he always goes out and patches it up anyway because, apparently, it is hard to play WarHammer (table RPG) on your own. I point out kids I know share interests, encourage him to connect to them, and then act as his counselor when there are conflicts.

When they are a little younger, carpools work pretty well at encouraging friendships that might never have been made otherwise, but most high schoolers don't need mom and dad to create carpools ...

And .... sorry for a rambling, bleary post. I guess I am feeling rambly and bleary, so it comes through in the writing ...

Sorry in advance for this somewhat piecemeal response to posts …

@Aspergerfiction and AnonymousPasserBy– well, I can try and find out if he really wants friends or is just happy as he is.
When he was younger his mother arranged playdates and such, he also went to cubs (and I took him to an excruciating father/son cub camp – never again!), we tried him with cricket but he paid absolutely no attention to the rules etc.

@Schleppenheimer – as mentioned previously I think I’d have reservations about your son’s significantly increased dosages. Our son is on a lower dose of Ritalin and despite some teething issues seems to be working ok; his personality has not changed and he is focusing more.

@PaintingDiva – can’t comment on the computer games. Our son has played some games like the rather hilarious nintendo64 game Conker and Mario a fair bit, but after a while he stops. He has not really been obsessive about them; in fact we were pleased he was playing some games more to completion because at least he was completing something. I don’t think he would be at risk of getting completely absorbed in a MMPORG, although I don’t know. We have just given him a laptop and he was taking it to his bedroom at night; maybe we’ll have to watch that! (All computer etc to date has been in the lounge). Thanks for your website suggestion.

@postcards57 – I think he is more ADD-inattention because he fits just about all the criteria on DSM-IV for that, but only some of the criteria for autism (unless PDD-NOS is included, which is rather vague).

@Tracker – thanks for the insightful suggestion that our son might want socialisation but not enough to go and get it, and might be happy with internet friends. While as an introvert I can understand that, I feel he does need some more social skills to get on in the real world. (Which is a different issue I suppose from having friends per se – but I do wish he could have that one good friend).

@ValentineWiggin – I don’t think our son is too upset at the life he leads, unlike you. Might I suggest places like games clubs or D & D at your college. In my experience groups with a common interest can be quite friendly and welcoming. When our daughter, who had not enjoyed her last years of school first went to university I really stressed meeting new people at the beginning, when everyone is new and open to meeting others. It worked great for her. Maybe you could read some inspirational books eg W Clement Stone.

@SuperTrouper – thanks for your wise suggestion of our son developing a real skill and interest in something – and pluses (even possibly friendship) could grow from that.

@DW-a-mom – thanks for your comments, although at seventeen he has been too old for arranged “playdates” for some years

You misunderstood me. I'm not talking play dates. I would call my suggestion scouting or research. Networking, really. You use parent connections to gather information on what kids have what interests, and then you pass that on to your son. That way he doesn't have to have twenty uncomfortable conversations before he happens upon someone who might share an interest. He only has to get brave enough to strike up conversation with the one pre-identified child. Or vice a versa.

Sometimes parents get sneakier and arrange the friendship equivalent of blind date hidden into a broader group situation, like a neighbor party. I know parents of high schoolers doing these things. Kids roll their eyes at it ... Except when it works.

Pont noted - dw-a-mom, although easier said than done!

Does he want to make friends?

MagicMeerkat

It's not completely easy to answer this question

1. Our son had friends when he was younger and definitely seemed to enjoy having friends then.
2. I believe he has friends on the internet, or at least posts on some forums (-he is very very cagy about his dad - me - seeing what he does on the internet, and as a liberal parent I generally do not intrude)
3. Whenever asked he has said he does want friends
4. He has made mention of two friends (of a sort) at school

On the other hand

1. He does not seem unhappy not having friends, although he is a naturally placid child
2. As an introvert even mildly schizoid personality myself (albeit basically NT) I can understand that some people don't need friends

However yes, on balance I do believe he would like a friend or friends, and I and his mother would dearly like that he would have at least one good friend (which would also help him understand how friendship and relationships work (ie the give and take required)

I'm 19 with aspergers, I have a few, of which I concider very close friends, everyone else is pretty much an aquantince to me. I think I've made good friends because of my kindness. This has also led me to problems with certain people. (People using me)

My advice would be to tell him to be kind and have a sense of humor. Yes, that's how I got a friend I trust my life with. I laugh a lot, maybe even too much.

Thanks shifttheboss

It's good to read that you have made an extremely good friend.

Our son does have a sense of humour, but although he is pleasant I'm not sure he is really caring or kind (at least in my general understanding of those words). For instance while he is concerned about our dog (eg mistakenly got mad with me when I took the dog off lead near a cliff and also near a road when a car was coming as he felt the dog was in danger), he has not to my knowledge ever taken the dog for a walk, nor changed its water or food, without being told to do so.

So it's one possibility, as mentioned by a previous poster, that he would like friends in a general way, but is not concerned enough to make the effort to be supportive. However of course I know particularly in a school environment you can't necessarily be transparently helpful, otherwise people may just take advantage, as they did with you.

Alternatively maybe socialisation is just too hard for him. I have just asked him about friends again. (He is responding more cogently now he is on Ritalin). He said his social position could be better but he feels socialisation is too hard at the moment.

Yes, I actually just started adderall few months ago, and I found the results to be astonishing. My social skills improved, although I still have trouble talking to girls. Not to guys though. I'm overweight and I did lose 45 pounds due to my new healthy dieting and exercising, which prior to me taking adderal never existed. And I started college for computer technology. However on the complete and utter downside I'm developing a tolerence to adderall, and it doesn't effect as much anymore. Now I'm gaining weight back, and dropping classes, plus I'm less sociable. Drugs like adderal/ridalin/cocaine are amphetimines, only temporary fixes. And to worsen things you develop chemical dependenices to them.

I thought thought id thought id share my experience with adhd drugs.

Great at first, not so good after a little bit.

shifttheboss - sorry to read that. It may be that your dose was too high; in general I think it best to take the minimum efficacious dose.

For me, it wasn't that I didn't want any friends, because I preferred being friends with people who were at least 5 years older than myself. I just wasn't interested in my peers and generation. I also had trust issues when it came to my peers. I had no trouble making friends with people who were older than me and even to this day, I'm even friends with my parents friends, because they're of the generation that I prefer.